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The Mystery of the Sixth Seal


“These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” (John 16:33)


Preface

This article offers a bit of what I call unconventional eschatology. Because the seals seem to be such a mystery, I've been asking the Lord for insight about them and want to present the results of a prayerful study. I don't share this as a teaching, but as something to consider as you study prophecy yourself and seek our heavenly Father for wisdom in these last days. I am not dogmatic about these findings and remain soft, humble, and open to correction by the Holy Spirit.

TL;DR 

I believe the seven-year “tribulation age” begins with the trumpets. The seals are not part of Daniel's 70th week and Jesus has been opening them for the last 2000 years. In my humble understanding, the “dead in Christ rise first” (1 Thess. 4:16) happens at the completion of the 5th seal. “We who are alive and remain” (1 Thess. 4:17) will occur in the 6th seal.

I also want to mention that Gary and Jeff hold to the traditional dispensational view where the seals are opened after the rapture. What I present here is a pre-tribulational alternative to the traditional view, and I believe the fifth seal has already been opened.



The book of Revelation describes a series of seals, trumpets, and bowls that hold current events, plagues of warning, and the wrath of God.

I've come to understand that the seals described in Revelation 6 & 7 are pre-trib; i.e., before the beginning of Daniel's 70th week. The seals are not judgments. There is “tribulation” during the seals—tribulation as in trouble and trial and heartache and suffering (see John 16:33). But I believe Jesus has been opening the seals ever since he ascended to the throne and that the first five have already been opened. My position is that we are, right now, in the 5th seal. Here is why.

The revelation that Jesus gave to the Apostle John shows us that after Jesus ascended to His Father (Acts 1:9-11), He took the scroll (Rev. 5:5-7) and began opening the seals (Rev. 6:1). Notice that Jesus Himself is opening the seals, which is different than the later judgments, where angels are actively blowing trumpets or pouring out bowls of wrath.

The scroll contains judgments (and / or legal matters), but the seals are simply holding the scroll closed.

“Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” (John 16:32-33)

“And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it. So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed [conquered; overcome] to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.” (Rev. 5:3-5)

Prevailing is what made Him worthy to take and open the scroll. This is something that only Christ could do. What is something only Christ has done? He alone tasted death for all men, the just for the unjust (1 Pet. 3:18), and conquered it.


Seals 1-5 are all things that Jesus has already overcome.

Not all of the seals are destructive, so we cannot think of them as tribulation or judgments. Seal 5 is about comfort. Seal 7 is about silence in heaven, an atonement ritual, and the 7 angels preparing to sound.

Moreover, I do not believe that Seal 1 is the antichrist. While it could be a spirit of deception, there is perhaps another conclusion.

Consider:

“And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.” (Rev. 6:1)

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Rom. 8:35-39) 

We are more than conquerors.

“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.” (Rev. 12:11)

“He who overcomes!” 

Please read Revelation chapters 2 & 3 and see all of Jesus’ promises to “him who overcomes.”

“I die daily.”—Paul.

I realize the first seal could apply to deception & false christs, but knowing that not all of the seals contain what Jesus described in John 16:33 as “in the world you will have tribulation,” it’s very possible that Seal 1 is associated with the saints. Just as Jesus overcame the world, so we too, with Him, can overcome. And each of the first five seals are associated with the very things Paul said that we are more than conquerors in—tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword, death, and more—through Him that loved us.

The first five seals, the Olivet discourse, and where we are now...

There is a fascinating parallel to the first five seals and Jesus' conversation with his disciples about the years leading up to His 2nd coming. There are nearly two thousand of them, and the rapture happens before the last seven.

Take a look:

“But the end is not yet...”

1st seal: The royal conqueror; Rev. 6:1-2
Jesus: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.” Matt. 24:4-5

2nd seal: Great conflict on earth; Rev. 6:3-4
Jesus: “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.” Matt. 24:6

“The beginning of sorrows...”

3rd seal: Scarcity & economic distress; Rev. 6:5-6
Jesus: “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.” Matt. 24:7-8

4th seal: Widespread death; Rev. 6:7-8
Jesus: “...And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.” Matt. 24:7

Where I believe we are right now:

5th seal: Cry of the martyrs: Rev. 6:9-11
Jesus: “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation [John 16:33 tribulation] and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.” Matt. 24:9



The things happening in seals 1-5 are not new events.

Almost all of these things have been happening in the world since before Jesus ascended to His throne. The volume and magnitude of them has increased, but none of it is new. Famines, pestilences, death, earthquakes, war...these are not new events.

Out of all of these distresses, Christian persecution is the newest, and it started with the stoning of Stephen nearly 2000 years ago.

What has not yet happened in the seals is that the martyrs are given white robes & told to rest for a little while.

And he said, “Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the Lord unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.” (Amos 8:2)

“I will not again pass by them anymore.” This is the shift in dispensation where God turns His attention back to Israel (Micah 5:3, Romans 11:25) and I believe Seal 5 concludes & Seal 6 opens. As mentioned, I believe we are currently in the 5th seal. I also believe that the harpazo could begin in the 5th seal. Consider the following:

“When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.” (Rev. 6:9-11) 

White robes are given to bodies. In the 5th seal, the souls under the altar receive white robes which means they must also receive bodies. Later, in the following seal, we see the multitude wearing their white robes already in heaven. We know from Paul that the dead in Christ rise first (1 Thess. 4:16), and we who are alive & remain meet them and Jesus in the air (1 Thess. 4:17).

I submit that, in the fifth seal, the souls under the altar are joined with their bodies (& thus given white robes). This means a rapture! First the dead in Christ, followed quickly by the sixth seal and “we who are alive & remain...”


The mystery of the sixth seal

6th seal: The shaking of heaven & earth; Rev. 6:12-17

“I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Rev. 6:12-17 

I believe the 6th seal describes a catastrophic cosmic & earthly event (quite possibly the Ezekiel 38 war; please read it and note its similarities with the sixth seal) that brings the age of grace to a close and ushers in the time of Jacob's Trouble. At this time, as promised in John 14:1-3, 1 Cor. 15:50-52, and 1 Thess. 4:17, Jesus receives his alive & remaining Body in the air and takes us to always be with him.

“And then the end will come...” 

This further illuminates the conversation between Jesus and His disciples. As we saw above, after he tells them that some will be martyred for His name's sake (Matt. 24:9), the next thing to expect is:

“AND THEN many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Matt. 24:10-14 

Why “...and then...offended?” 
Why (then) will lawlessness abound? 
Why (then) will false prophets arise and deceive many? 

There must be a cataclysmic shift. Something huge has to happen here. Offenses, betrayals, false prophets, lawlessness, and hatred of others have occurred since the fall of man. What is different now? What is significant about this particular time, and what distinguishes it from all the thousands of years prior to this?

The answer is found in 2 Thessalonians 2.

“And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thess. 2:6-12)



“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.” Matt. 5:14

Right now Jesus, the light of the world, indwells believers. Light keeps the darkness away. With the Church out of the earth, the light of the world will go out. The Holy Spirit will still be in the world, but I believe He will operate as He did in the Old Testament, Law & Prophet days. Once the restrainer is gone, and the influence of the Holy Spirit is removed, indeed: lawlessness and deception will abound. Once the Church is caught up to God, many who thought they were the church will not be included.

 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—” (Rev. 3:15-17)

“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29 

And they will be offended: offended because they were left behind. These are the Christian-in-name-only folks who may have a form of godliness, but deny its power (2 Tim. 3:1-7). They will see what happened and will be offended that they were not included in the rapture, and with the restraining work of the Holy Spirit through the Church out of the way, darkness will again cover the earth.

“Out of” tribulation, not “through” it

Before continuing on to the 7th and final seal, two new events take place. John says, “After these things...” which confirms a sequence of events:

  • • First, the 144k of the twelve tribes of Israel are sealed with the seal of God on their foreheads. (Rev. 7:1-8) Also consider Micah 5:3. 
  • • Second,  John sees something new: a great and innumerable multitude clothed in white robes standing before the Lamb (Jesus). (Rev. 7:9-10)

A heavenly elder tells John,

“These are the ones who come out of [rather than through] the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” (Rev. 7:14-17) 

Some believe this multitude is made of tribulation saints, or those who come to faith during Daniel's 70th week. Perhaps they are. However, this vast multitude, great and innumerable which no one could number, would be a perfect representation of 2000-years-worth of “dead in Christ & we who are alive and remain” believers... a congregation that is truly impossible to count. I believe it is the faithful Church who is caught up to God and his throne before Daniel's 70th week begins—those whom the dragon tried to devour, but which “overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.” (Rev. 12:11)

Consider these points:
  • • We know that the current world population is almost 7.6 billion. This is numbered. 
  • • After the rapture, this population will be drastically reduced. 
  • • During Daniel's 70th week, the numbers of those who come to faith will be even less. 
  • • Those who come to faith after the rapture appear after the 2nd Coming (Rev. 20:4), which follows the trumpets & the bowls, and there is a good case that they will be judged by the saints. 
  • • Remember, when this innumerable multitude appears, we are still pre-trib in the sixth seal.



Note that in the book of Revelation, there are two saved groups from two separate dispensations. 

The first, believers from the dispensation of grace: the body of Christ which makes no distinction between Gentile or Jew. They sing the song of salvation (Rev. 7:10, 12:10) and have overcome the enemy by the blood of the Lamb & word of their testimony (Rom. 10:9-10, Rev. 12:11). This is the innumerable multitude which appears during the sixth seal.

The second group are the tribulation saints. They keep the commandments of God & the faith of Jesus (Rev. 12:17, 14:12). They sing the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb (Rev. 15:2-4).

This second group is not part of the body of Christ. They do not exist until after the catching away of the Church. They are people from the dispensation of time that features two witnesses (Rev. 11:1-12) and the angelic everlasting gospel (Rev. 14:6-7). This happens during the first 3.5 years of Daniel's 70th week, which contain the trumpets.

The 7th seal & silence in heaven

The seventh seal is a mysterious seal. It seems to indicate a ritual (described in Exodus 30 and Leviticus 16) and a transition.

“When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake. So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.” Rev. 8:1-6 

Here we have silence in heaven which precedes the incense that is offered with all the prayers of the saints. John Barnett, from Discover the Book Ministries, writes that this ceremony takes about half an hour. He also suggests that the silence is because God stops everything to listen!

God Stops Everything to Listen—The silence in Heaven may well be a precious insight into how vital our prayers are to God. Everything halts before the Throne as the prayers of His saints arise before our Almighty God. If everything else halts and God breathes in the sweet fragrance of the devoted prayers we offer, doesn’t that make us want to pray, and pray, and pray: without ceasing, as Paul exhorts us?—John Barnett

Once the fire is thrown to earth, the seven angels prepare to sound the trumpets for the judgments. And this is when I believe Daniel's 70th week begins.




So, Beloved, PRAY.

Regardless of where we are in the timeline, the truth is: we know we are in the last days. Many of us can sense the chill of coming darkness. Dear saints, the Day is at hand! We are called to watch and pray. To watch & pray is part of our warfare.

“...Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.” (Eph. 6:10-18)

The power is the blood.

We do not have to agree on secondary issues. We do not need to all interpret eschatology the same way. But more than ever, there is urgency to believe and to proclaim the gospel. Right now, the Holy Spirit indwells the body of Christ on earth. You are the light of the world! (Matt. 5:14) When the Church is taken away, the door to this dispensation of grace will close.

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” (Rom. 1:16) 

This is the gospel: the death (shedding of blood), burial and resurrection of Jesus: “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.” (1 Cor. 15:1-4)

Among those who will not be part of the rapture are those who have the form of godliness but deny the power thereof. 

The power is the blood of Jesus, because without the shedding of blood there is no remission, or forgiveness, of sin. (Heb. 9:22) His blood makes atonement for us, or at-ONE-ment. Because of Jesus, we are reconciled to God. Through Yeshua, our sin no longer separates us from His holiness and we have peace with God. (Rom. 5:1-11)

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Rom. 5:9)

Nothing else saves us. Repentance from sin does not save us. Living a holy life does not save us. Only belief in the finished work of Jesus saves us! Once we are saved, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit who guides us, leads us and convicts us to repent, walk in obedience and holiness, and to grow in our faith so we can do good in our lives. (Eph. 2:8-10, Eph. 1:13-14, 1 Pet. 1:5).

If you have not yet put your trust solely in the blood of Jesus, I urge you to do so now. Trust that He, and He alone, saves you!

If you already believe, pray always in the Spirit and pray for all the saints and pray for those who will become saints. Like never before, we must become a people of prayer.



Conclusion

Here is a brief overview of how I see events unfold:

  • Pre-trib: first 5 seals
  • Pre-trib/beginning trib: harpazo (the catching away of the Church at the last trump, the trumpet of God & the Lord gathers his people), 6th & 7th seals, the sealing of the 144k, the revealing of the lawless one (the man of sin in 2 Thess. 2:3)
  • First half: seven trumpet judgments, 2 witnesses, antichrist rises in power
  • Mid-point: the abomination of desolation 
  • Last half: seven bowl judgments, Jews fleeing (Matt. 24:15-22), satan indwells antichrist (the son of perdition in 2 Thess. 2:3-4)
  • Very end: 2nd Coming & angels gather the tares first (Matt. 13:30, Matt. 24:29-31), Armageddon 
  • Millennial kingdom / new heavens & new earth

In closing, I believe that we are currently experiencing the 5th seal. Believers are being martyred like never before across the globe. I believe the dead in Christ rise at the end of the 5th seal, and “we who are a live & remain” will be removed from the earth at the 6th seal. And with the trumpet judgments, the 7-year time of Jacob's Trouble will begin.


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151 comments :

  1. Interesting article. Just out of curiosity, how do you view the 24 elders?

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    1. Frankly, I'm stumped by who exactly they are and this continues to be a subject of research. Most people believe they are of the Church, but the arguments for them being the Church are less compelling to me than all of the other points. They could be of the saints who rose when Jesus was crucified (Matt. 27:51-53).

      We see John in heaven witnessing what appears to be Jesus immediately following his crucifixion (Rev. 5:6). The elders are in heaven before the Lamb arrives. Many also believe that the Church represents John, who is also shown in heaven before the Lamb arrives and before He takes the scroll.

      I realize the timing of things is layered, but until the Lamb takes the scroll, by default He does not have the scroll. So the Church being in heaven at that point doesn't line up to me.

      However, I could have it all wrong! I fully realize this is a minority position & share it with humility.

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    2. I'll post it for you, Greg! I remember reading this a while back when you shared the link: http://www.alittlestrength.com/articles/2015/1505-gang.htm

      Very thorough and convincing argument that the complete and glorified Church is represented by the 24 elders.

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    3. How about the leader of each one of the 12 tribes, then o'course the apostles.

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    4. I wasn't going to bother, since I didn't want to come across as argumentative (moi?), but thanks. =:)

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    5. 12 for tribes of Israel / 12 for Apostles of the NT

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    6. Thanks for posting this link, Jeff.

      In the scheme of things, maybe this isn't a crucial point, and I believe we will know soon enough. I still am unconvinced about the elders being the Church, but this is with love & respect and again, I know I could be wrong about this. I'll share some thoughts below.

      So the Church is the body of Christ, the bride of Christ, the New Jerusalem and the Elders?

      Along with the four beasts, the 24 elders fall before the Lamb with harps and golden bowls of incense which are the prayers of the saints. (Rev. 5:8) This suggests that the saints are "other."

      The Greek interpretations of Rev. 5:9-10 render quite differently than many English versions. SeeRev. 5:9 in Greek and Rev. 5:10 in Greek. Moreover, the word "us" in the phrase, "you have made us" is Greek 846, autous,translated more as "they" and "them."

      I'm not trying to force things to fit, but to be a berean. I'll add more as it comes.

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    7. Hi Hillary - we are also kings and priests according to Hebrews, so I don't have a problem with the Church being given multiple names, as the names indicate a function and/or authority. An Elder was a spiritual authority over a city/town. Christ notes that we will rule and reign with him, with the apostles being pointed out for specific rulership over the 12 tribes of Israel (although limited to the millennial reign).

      By the way, interesting article and I appreciate that unsealed have given an alternative perspective to be noted here. Mark Richardson (the Four Sign Posts) would agree with you that the seals (to a certain extent) are pre-trib in nature, however his time-frame has these seals being opened (so far) from around 1990 with Saddam Hussein. While I don't fully agree with his exegesis in this regard, some of his points are compelling.

      Ryan

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    8. sorry thats Mark Davidson not Mark Richardson

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    9. "We see John in heaven witnessing what appears to be Jesus immediately following his crucifixion."

      Again, just out of curiosity, what leads you to believe this is Jesus immediately following His resurrection in Rev. 5:6? Such a thought has never occurred to me, and I'm just curious if there is something in Scripture I've overlooked all these years.

      Don't laugh...it's happened. =8o

      (If you read the article Jeff linked to, you'll understand why I have a different view.)

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    10. Hi Greg....I'm still working on your article (I've been inundated with resources on the traditional view, as I'm sure you can imagine 😂 ) but I will keep reading it. I've read your articles before and always appreciated them.

      What leads me to say that we see John witnessing what appears to be Jesus immediately following his crucifixion" are two things:

      "And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." Rev. 5:2-3

      Here we see what seems to be a transition. No man in heaven, on earth, or under the earth (dead) was found who was worthy to open the scroll. I think Jesus was en-route, returning to the Father. And then He arrives; He appears in the midst. We see Him, not cleaned up and warrior-like, but as a lamb slain, (what makes a lamb look slain as opposed to a lamb that does not look slain?) and He comes and takes the book. (Rev. 5:5-7) He is then worshipped by the four beasts and elders, who sing a *new* song. (Rev. 5:9) To me these show that John is seeing the events that bring the resurrected Jesus, the one who has prevailed, into the throne room.

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    11. Hillary and Greg - two of my favorites! Love your writing styles and how you present your thoughts in a way that encourages us to learn more.

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    12. after all that Hillary, I am glad to see a fellow 'intra-seal' trib take the stand, although we differ in our expectation as to whether the seals are part of the tribulation or not.

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    13. Through and Through & Grendel19....

      Thank you! :)

      I also want to point out that the elders are not the only ones singing: "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." (Rev. 5:9-10)

      The 4 beasts / living creatures are also singing this.

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    14. Hi Greg L, I'm not sure if you're checking these comments but I wanted to say that I've finished your article and wanted to make a few small comments in response.

      To your point #6, and my answer to you above, with not knowing who the elders are. I can understand the picture you've painted of "diehards" who throw their hands up in the air, but I humbly ask for a little more graciousness towards those who you might see that way. As I've stated elsewhere, I'm not trying to force things to fit, or explain things away that I don't have an answer for. I wanted to be honest. This is a serious study for me and I hope for others, too.

      So with that I do want to share a couple things since posting this article (because it continues to be a study).

      1) Is. 24:23 (nkjv) talks about elders...who are they, whom the Lord of hosts reigns before? If it is the church, the word "saints" would be more consistent. Obviously this is not conclusive, but to me it is worth deeper study.

      2) Quoting your article re: "us" vs. "them:"

      "Whew...I said all that to make sure you understand in no uncertain terms that in Revelation 5:9–10, the 24 elders are talking about themselves as being redeemed by the blood of Jesus and being made kings and priests and ruling on earth—not some other saints still on earth or anywhere else. Bottom line: It's us us us. It's always been us. It was never them." /end quote

      So if we leave it, for the sake of discussion, that it is "us" singing in Rev. 5:9-10, who exactly is "us?" We know from Rev. 5:8 that the singers are the four beasts (or four living creatures) *and* the 24 elders. I gently want to ask, why then are the four living creatures not also considered the church?

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    15. "I can understand the picture you've painted of "diehards" who throw their hands up in the air, but I humbly ask for a little more graciousness towards those who you might see that way."

      I'm sorry...that *IS* me being gracious. My bad. =8/

      (2) Tony Garland (who agrees the elders are the raptured Church) has a slightly different take on this, saying the manuscript evidence indicates that the first pronoun usage should be first person plural and the *second and third* should actually be third person plural. In other words, verses 9-10 should read "us...them...they." He has an excellent explanation why this means the four creatures are not singing about themselves, while the elders are:

      http://www.spiritandtruth.org/questions/217.htm?x=x

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    16. The 24 elders around the throne are the 12 sons of Israel and the 12 apostles of Jesus I believe. As do many scholars. Since Judas will not be there because of his betrayal of Jesus, I believe Paul will be there instead.
      This article is exactly the way I have believed for several years now . During an in depth study of Revelation I had asked the Lord for wisdom and discernment and I had this thought come into my head, " who says the seals are part of the Tribulation?" I believe the white horse is the false Christs that have been coming on this earth deceiving many for 2000 years. Even now we have had several over the years. Be people are flocking to them because they don't know the Bible.
      I believe as he does that the end if the 5 th seal and the 6 th seal will be very close together. The martyrd saints will come down at the rapture and be united with their bodies and then the 6 th seal will start and that is when we go up. Because at the sixth seal it says the wrath has started and who can stand? So I believe the multitude no one can count in Rev 7 is the martyrd saints and the raptured saints. Because remember the elder is around the throne all the time and all of a sudden in the twinkling of an eye so to speak there are multitudes no one can count around the throne.
      And when you study the Jewish wedding ceremony and the feasts you see terminology here. Rev 7:15 " he who sits in the throne will spread his tent over them". That is a chuppah. The wedding tent. That is what will be spread over the bride of Christ. And in Rev 8 the opening of the 7th seal, you see the golden censer filled with incense which are the prayers of the saints being put in the golden alter before the throne. When you study the tabernacle and temple rituals , you see that the incense was put into the golden censer and then put on the golden alter in the inner chamber of the tabernacle and that this was a sweet smell to God as being the prayers of the saints . This golden alter was right before the High Priest would go into the Holy ifz Holies and see God face to face.
      Study the feasts of the Lord and the wedding ceremony of the Jewish people. It will open your eyes. I have been following Perry Stone and Mark Biltz for years and have really had the Bible come alive through their teachings on the feasts .

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    17. Also, do a comparison of the seals in revelation and Matthew 24. They are the same. The seals are not judgement. They are the things that have been happening throughout time. False Christs, wars, famines, pestilence, martyrdom . But since Jesus came 2000 years ago they are getting stronger, closer together more intense. The birth pains are getting stronger. Jesus has bedn opening the seals since he left. And recently he has opened the 5 th seal because you can see the increase in Christian martyrdom around the world. All you have to do is type in Christian martyrdom in the last few years and you can see the increase.

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  2. Logical progression, concise, solid "argument". thank you - Mike

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    1. I appreciate that, Mike. Thanks for reading. God bless you!

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  3. Perhaps if you get a few moments read through forum member RT's the in depth version >> http://unsealed.boards.net/thread/133/revised-view-pretrib-rapture
    Mike

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  4. I was so excited when I saw this I had to post. I haven't even finished reading the article and can't type fast enough. Please see:

    www.daniel11truth.com

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    1. Sorry I don't know how to make the links clickable :

      Sixth seal is the rapture : http://daniel11truth.com/the-seals-explain-pre-tribulation-rapture.htm

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    2. Thank you for sharing this resource! Your excitement is a blessing. I know that feeling when you discover something that aligns with what you've been studying. May God bless you and give you wisdom as you seek out His truth and way.

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  5. mystery babylon have been solved by the two prophets of revelations 11
    This is how they explained the mystery
    revelation 17:4,clothed=flag, purple=dark blue, scarlet = red meaning mystery babylon=a city flagged dark blue and red=paris
    paris is the great city ruling the earth.
    Revelation 18 : 16, linen = white, scarlet, purple, clothed, meaning the country which the city is found in is flagged Red, Blue and White=France
    yes it makes sense after hearing them
    paris is the most beautiful city on earth, paris brought enlightenment to the world.France rules the earth
    you can't say these people are not the prophesied ones
    please can someone reason with me

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    1. Hi Clement! I believe Scripture is clear that the two witnesses are real people who prophesy for 3.5 years and are killed. Then after 3 days, they come back to life and are raptured to heaven in the sight of all. (Rev. 11:7-12) Thank you for adding your thoughts!

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    2. Red, white and blue sounds more like the USA. I think we at this time at least, would be ruling the world more than France. Also could be New York, which is a city and a state as our financial Wall Street is there aren't they? I believe it's Isaiah who speaks of the sorceries of the mystery Babylon. That word is translated Pharmakia, or as we would understand, pharmacy/ drugs. Who else more than the USA is drugging the world with her drugs more than us? Just some thoughts. Thanks for the article Hillary. Curious if you've read Brad Hurst's Systematic Theology? Blessings to you. You're an awesome writer. Also, I thought Jesus said his apostles would be sitting on thrones with Him. Always thought the 24 elders were the 12 apostles and 12 tribal leaders. I guess we'll hopefully soon find out. Maranatha! Charissa

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  6. 4th seal: Widespread death; Rev. 6:7-8
    Jesus: “...And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.”
    Matt. 24:7

    How does everyone see Revelation 6:8 in regard to the specificity of authority over a "fourth of the earth"? To me that is the only thing that lingers as a potential problem. I have read up on others who take the 6th seal as the rapture of the church around the great earthquake as well and propose similar teaching. When I look into Strongs Concordance on Revelation 6:8 it is clear that the Greek states a "prolonged verb tense" but the question is one of timing because prolonged verb tense could be the seals throughout the church age as is proposed here or a full 7 years in tribulation right? The problem I am having again is "a fourth"- how is that quantifiable over 2,000+ years? Is it measurable over 7 years. A Fourth is a fourth, we know our God is exact right? His plan is perfectly planned. That is all I got, I have prayed over the idea of a 6th seal rapture for sometime and will continue to. I think it is certainly reasonable.

    Consider Strongs for the entire chapter, but this is what I was talking about:

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1325&t=KJV

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    1. The 4th seal was the Holocaust: http://daniel11truth.com/the-seals-explain-pre-tribulation-rapture.htm

      " Seal 4 helped Israel regain their sovereignty, also, but they paid with their lives rather than money. Seal 4 brought “Death and Hades”. They were given power over a forth of the earth to kill by sword, famine, plague, and wild beasts of the earth. According to estimates in the Nuremburg trials, taken from jewishvirtuallibrary.org, about six million Jews (1.5 million children) were killed between 1933 and 1945. If you subtract the children, it equals exactly one-forth of the estimated Jews at that time, (18 million). Additionally, all the various methods can be accounted for because the Jews were shot, starved, and gassed to death. If they were fortunate enough to escape, many hid in the mountains and forests where they became susceptible to wild animals. Although it was a tragedy, it sped up Jewish migration to Palestine and gave them a vote of sympathy in the United Nations. I’m not insinuating that God desired to kill that many Jews but He certainly predicted it. Given the timing (from seal 3) and the significance of fulfilling God’s prophecy, I have no doubt that the forth seal was the Holocaust. "

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    2. I'm not saying this is it, but worth a read,

      http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/Articles/SteveSnider/MeetPaleHorse.html

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    3. The pale (green) horse was actually picked up by the BBC during the Arab Spring. There are those that claim it's just a reflection, but I've watched it dozens of times and I see a green horse. It certainly unleashed an enormous amount of death. Just look up "green horse Egypt" and judge for yourself.

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    4. Some interesting theories above about Seal 4. Thanks for sharing them! A couple things to note: each of the horses, I believe, are fully under God's control and we see them (or representations of them) in Zech. 6:8. While reading tonight, I came across Lev. 26:16-26 and was struck by how they fit the descriptions of the seals. All of these things are things we are more than conquerors in through Christ, and at the same time, the horses and their riders are in service to the Most High. Over the years God has allowed punishment and travail to fall on those who are disobedient to Him (pre-cross) and because He is not mocked, He allows the consequences of sin (1 Cor. 5:5) after the cross. Yet this is not His wrath; and His great mercy is so evident through it all. Praise be to the Most High, whose mercy endures forever!

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  7. Very well articulated, Hillary. Thank you for posting this - it provides lots of food for thought on the subject.

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    1. Thanks, Gary. I realize you hold the traditional view and appreciate your gracious making space for a minority one. Regardless of the exact way it all occurs, we know these are the days and our Lord is coming soon. Maranatha!

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  8. You don't have to buy the book even though it's dirt cheap and instead you can download the old interviews here http://www.earthquakeresurrection.com/interviews.html

    but David Lowe in his book Earthquake Resurrection discusses the Sixth Seal at great length. I read this book 10 years ago and it blew me away and really turned me on to bible prophecy. The author as a child was required to memorize the bible and as a result he found patterns that are very telling. He has a very interesting take on the 24 Elders and it's totally based on scripture. He also caught that the KJV and other versions have a 180 degree translation of who the 24 Elders indicating that the KJV is likely wrong. I definitely recommend listening to the interviews.


    Here' a Pastor's reaction to it from 10 years ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvba47aEKh4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6GnthldxOA

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    1. Someone shared this link with me yesterday and I've got it open in my browser waiting for a moment to read. Thanks for the nudge! And for the videos, too. God bless you!

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    2. You're welcome and God Bless you for your contributions here

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    3. I have never heard of the Earthquake Resurrection, really enjoyed the second video and sermon. Thanks for posting

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    4. Robert, you'll find some of David Lowe's old interviews about the book Earthquake Resurrection on his site at the above link and I think you'll enjoy them

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  10. Wow. First you folks slide the dates around on me (September Trumpets... no wait... something about the barley harvest makes it OCTOBER Trumpets... no wait, it's NOVEMBER 3rd [some Jewish thing that starts with a V]... no wait, maybe Pentecost next year, etc), and now you're moving the freakin' SEALS on me! And here I thought a Revelation 4:1 Rapture, immediately followed by the declaration of the Jesus' worthiness in the presence of the saints (Revelation 5:5,8), followed by the opening of the seals (Revelation 6:1) -- was one of the few obvious sequences in the whole book of Revelation, and something we could count on as an anchor point for discussion. But now it's all just confusing. 1 Corinthians 14:33

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    1. Well, DJ and Mksmith - whether confusing or not - this is absolutely exciting! So, I agree with Stephanie who replied above.
      To me, Revelation has always been difficult no matter who I have read that says it is easy to understand.
      I am still reading the article and I will be checking into the site that Stephanie mentioned and Eccl 10:2's suggested interviews and also TP's comments.
      I enjoyed what you said DJ because you succinctly stated where it is at!
      To Hillary ... Keep it coming!
      Cathi

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    2. "unconventional eschatology" is code for continually looking backward to try and fit the Bible to the circumstances, instead of acknowledging the great harm that's been done by "date speculation".

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    3. only God knows for SURE. we are watching and longing and hoping. one thing i think you will agree on is that end time signs are unfolding. the exact timing for fulfillment only God knows. but when you see these things begin to come to pass, look up, lift up your head, for your redemption draws near.

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    4. DJ...hold fast, friend. I find that confusion happens for me when I lean a little too heavy on what others share and put my faith in it rather than in what the Lord is showing me. I don't know if this happens to you, but if I can offer anything of encouragement, I truly hope that at the very least, this article has inspired you to dive even more deeply into Scripture and press close to our Heavenly Father. We all "know in part" right now, and I for sure don't have all the right answers. However, you are loved and the Father will reveal things to you if you ask Him. And if the answers don't come right away, in my humble opinion it's because it's part of the journey of intimacy with our Beloved, and of faith. Keep holding on...He is coming soon! God bless you!

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    5. BryanB, perhaps some try to make the Bible fit but that's certainly not something I'm interested in. Thanks for reading, and God bless!

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    6. I take comfort in the fact that the diciples, who were with Jesus, day after day, hearing every word he said, for years, were seemingly always confused and totally surprised by the outcome. Lol

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    7. Just waiting: Oh how true! Lord have mercy! This is a good reminder to keep grounded in faith, hope & love!

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    8. Re: DJ and Bryan,

      Do you at least concede/or agree the "70th Week" (Time of Jacob's Trouble and Tribulation Period) is on the near horizon?

      With the 120, 100,70, and 50 year anniversaries [re: Israel] happening in or being fulfilled in 2017, we should see/know the birth/growth/restoration of the nation of Israel is...shall we or can we say complete?

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    9. Charlie in DC asks, "Do you at least concede/or agree the "70th Week" (Time of Jacob's Trouble and Tribulation Period) is on the near horizon?"

      DJ replies, Things do seem to be heating up. But believers of my parent's generation had cause to think the same in 1939-1945, with the rise of antichrist-like Hitler, 6 million Jews imprisoned and murdered, the whole world at war, the invention AND USE of atomic bombs, etc. In my own generation, Hal Lindsay and Edgar Whisenant gave us lots of reasons to believe the Rapture would be soon coming, including 88 reasons for a 1988 Rapture, like Israel a nation in 1948 plus 40 years of "testing", etc. So, yes, lots of similar signs are piling up for this generation, as well.

      Personally, I've been looking up since 1982 when I wrote and recorded this song...

      http://godlychristianmusic.com/music/play2.aspx?id=3012&type=song.mp3

      ...but I must admit I find it more spiritually edifying to focus on a bigger picture than just prophecy (yet including prophecy), as expressed in another song from teh same period, still valid after all these years:

      http://godlychristianmusic.com/music/play2.aspx?id=3027&type=song.mp3

      Ephesians 6:24




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    10. Brother DJ, let me say that I loved your music, especially that first one. "I don't know when, but I know He's coming - Cause He said He would -He gave His promise and His promise is good. He is coming back to take me home...I've been waiting such a long, lonesome time to hear my Savior call my name...though He tarries, I'm still watching for the signs. I don't know why, but I know He loves me. He died and rose just to make me His own. Going to serve Him till I see Him in the sky...want to hear Him say well done so I keep working till He comes...His Promise is Good ! The Lamb is Victorious !!! For Ever and Ever !!! He will reign for ever !!!!!! And I belong to Him by His grace and mercy -

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  11. All right, sister. While I fundamentally disagree with the conclusion that the 6th seal involves the resurrection and rapture of the Church, I'm glad you laid out your points clearly and succinctly. It helps me to see what has been generating the interest in this viewpoint.

    Thank you!

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    1. Hi Jeff! I realize we hold differing views on this right now, but I appreciate that we still walk in fellowship and grace! :) Thanks for reading and for your continued faithful service to the body of Christ. God bless you!

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    2. Revelation 4:1. John represents me, a part of the Church. I want to participate in the Lamb removing EACH of the seals. How does this happen? I get resurrected to see my Lord taking the scroll from the Father's hand. I HAVE TO WITNESS THIS. You people keep trying to tell me that I won't get to witness this. Who are YOU?????? I demand to witness the Lord redeeming my land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    3. Jeff! Are you Jeff of the three postings about Vayera?!?!?

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  12. Part #1] My proposed timeline (from way down on the Screaming at the Sky comments) aligns with Hillary's and I concur the 6th Seal is next and the first 5 have already been opened. With the 6th Seal comes:

    1) A "Great" Earthquake
    2) Stars and the Heavens Fall to Earth (reads like an asteroid strike to me)
    3) The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up
    4) Every mountain and island were moved out of their places

    The world's elite know "something(s)" are coming...that is why they have been building/buying Deep Underground Military Bases (DUMB) for years. The Bible even says the "kings of the earth," "the rich," "the (military) commanders" go into hiding among the rocks.

    Part #2] I just watched(read) the following YTV before coming onto Unsealed to find this study...amazingly, many agreements with the 6th Seal and upcoming events.

    14min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fei0a5v4sek&spfreload=5

    Shockingly, the message mentions Efrain Rodriguez's warning from June of 2016 which includes these Pre-TRIB events (below). Repeat, Pre-TRIB events. I know many people have called him a false prophet because these events have YET to come to pass, but are they still likely to come... much like the REV 12 sign was a marker pointing to "ominous" things to come...(see AMP version):

    1) An Asteroid Impact around western Puerto Rico (2am);
    2) Earth's rotation will stop due to impact;
    3) Followed by a Great Earthquake (12.0);
    4) Followed A Shockwave felt around the world;
    5) Followed by a Tsunami
    6) Followed by Plague and Pestilence from dead bodies
    7) Followed by Scarcity of Food and Water for 15 months --> Martial Law

    Note: at the 8:40 mark he refers to when the LORD Appeared to Abraham to warn him about the soon coming destruction of Sodom & Gomorah (Gen 18) which is also Parashat Vayera which is TODAY...

    10min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up8-nVfFXEY

    I'd say, be on your toes and ensure your TRUST in the LORD JESUS & GOD ALMIGHTY (I also posted on Jeff's recent study 8 things we need to be doing in these Last Days).

    I am getting the feeling our days ahead WILL NOT be without difficulty/testing/need for trust/endurance prior to the Harpazo.

    May we all be SECURE and hold TIGHT to the ROCK...the ROCK of our SALVATION.

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    1. God bless you, Charlie! Thanks for reading and I will check out the links you shared. I absolutely agree...we must TRUST and hold tight to the Rock of our salvation!

      You might find interesting a comparison I did between the sixth seal and sign of the woman which you can read here. In it, I noted that just as the 6th seal shows "every mountain and island moved out of their place," in Rev. 12, after the war in heaven, they say: “Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you...”

      Seeing as how we just went through Sept. 23, I still believe the events described in Rev. 12 are extremely relevant to this time. Maybe you'll find it interesting as well.

      Maranatha!

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    2. These great 8 reminders came from this audio message. Very powerful and direct. When all else fails (fill in the blank) we should fall/rely on Jesus Christ and Christ alone. So along with my prior audio postings of ominous things to come, this is an alarm to HOLD FAST to the Lord Jesus Christ as these days get darker and darker.

      54min- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_HwhGbsuak

      1) BE READY for the Lord's decent
      2) The Shofar is about to BLOW
      3) Stay FOCUSED on the Lord
      4) Stay ROOTED in Lord
      5) REMAIN in the Lord's PRESENCE
      6) TRUST the Lord
      7) KEEP the Spiritual ARMOR ON and Fastened, especially in THESE DAYS
      8) We must STAND in the Lord's PRESENCE and Under His PROTECTION

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    3. AMEN! Thanks for posting these and for the link! I agree 100%.
      Have a beautiful day!

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    4. Charlie in DC and Hillary--This reminded me that the Spirit of the Lord told me we would see Luke 21:25 "the sea roaring" just before or simultaneously with the Rapture (recorded here: http://lynmelvin.blogspot.com/2016/11/the-sea-roaring.html) Yes, we may experience more shakings before the Sixth Seal actually is opened OR perhaps (as 1 Thessalonians 5 seems to indicate) the Rapture will occur almost simultaneously with the series of catastrophic events associated with the Sixth Seal. After all, God only needs a split second or "atomos" of time to get us out of here!!! PRAISE HIM!

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    5. Hi Lyn, interestingly on August 21 we had a sign in the sun (eclipse) and August 25, Hurricane Harvey made landfall. Pastor Mark Biltz (the man who wrote about the blood moon tetrad) pointed out that this perfectly fits Luke 21:25!

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  13. Charlie in DC ... I really appreciate the warnings you gave in the possibility of difficult times ahead before the rapture takes place. It seems there is more emphasis on something akin to an old Star Trek movie of 'beam me up Scottie'. This mindset has been disconcerting to me at times as I see things changing in the world and questioning how things might develop before The Blessed Hope and the 7-year tribulation itself.
    I will go back and read the 8 things we are to be doing (since I didn't write them down). I know what they are and what were to be doing - occupying until He comes. It is just that I am not doing them. And, my only comfort is that I surly can't be the only one. And, this sounds awful. Didn't Jesus say to Peter, what does that matter to you or words to that effect as to John being/staying alive. After all, I don't want to be ashamed at his coming (the rapture). Cathi

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    1. Just remember that Jesus has overcome the world! :) (John 16:33) I know it's not always easy, but we must find ways to hold onto our joy. I'm saying this to myself as much as anyone. The enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy, but Jesus has come to give life, and this is true no matter what. And through Him we are more than conquerors! You are greatly loved, Cathi. God bless you!

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  14. At last a "soft and humble" view to try and see what our heads are missing. Heaps it
    seems. I have always wondered at the silence of views concerning 2000 years. When so
    much has happened to believers and in the world. Today the pace is so fast we try to
    walk ahead of the ALmighty and often "Ooops"--- I/we missed something. Back to the
    BLOOD and back to "walk with God". Apparently the ALmighty was very impressed with
    Abraham because he managed "in faith" to walk ahead of the ALmighty and this pleased
    God. BUT as often happens we have to BACKTRACK in our walk. Nice since there are
    thousands and thousands of years and even more believers that have left markers.
    Yes 24 Elders would not be too hard to find.Like Nicodemous --- 'are you an elder
    and do not know about being born again'. The Rev12. kidnap is sounding just great!
    Love the BACKTRACKING and DELAYS keeps us LOOKING for HIM to appear.Check out
    THE STAR THE BRIGHT THE MORNING. (says "I AM" Rev.22.16). That is the star and the
    time and I am LOOKING. Thank you for posting and peeping in the past!

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    1. Thank you for your kind reply to this article! I keep coming back to we "know in part" right now, and I truly believe that many are given pieces to the whole picture & God wants us to work together as we figure it out. :) It is moving fast these days! Which I think is one more indication of the fullness of the times.

      God bless you!

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  15. Hillary, nicely done! I completely agree. Perhaps the 24 elders are comprised of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David, the major prophets (and/or might include the 12 sons of Jacob) as specially appointed witnesses of Yeshua's right to rule and reign. Perhaps they are given this special honor and privilege to already be seated with Him before everyone else is assembled together in our new bodies on that Great and Wonderful Day. I agree that it seems far less likely that the 24 represent the church. The crowd that cannot be numbered seems a far more likely fit. Thank you for sharing another fantastic article!

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    1. Thanks so much, Dwynne! If there is anything of value here, it's from our beloved Father; and any error is mine. To Him be the glory!

      I'm definitely praying about these elders, because their identity seems pivotal in this. And I'm prepared to accept if it remains a mystery. However, I too have considered that maybe these mysterious folks are given a special honor and privilege to be with Him before everyone else. Perhaps there was no need to explain them throughout Scripture. We know that if there were books written of everything Jesus did, even the whole world could not contain them (John 21:25) ....much less the works and decisions of God over thousands of years! I do not believe they are angels. But, like Enoch, they could be a series of people of faith who pleased God over the years. Like you said, perhaps some of the fathers and prophets or priests.

      God bless you!

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  16. Very refreshing.

    And, Eph 4:13 is happening IMHO, " unity in the faith and in the knowledge".

    That knowledge is spread about The Body of Christ, rewind a bit for the context of Eph 4:13,

    " gave gifts to his people" v4.

    Prophecy is one of those gifts.



    Hillary is starting to see what I saw a few years ago departing from the traditional/conventional interpretation of the four horsemen and seals. Many are, too.

    For starters, they are ***revelations*** of Jesus Christ. The traditional/conventional interpretation is NOT that.



    Wake-up.org has some of that truth dispersed throughout The Body, https://www.wake-up.org/book-of-life-who-is-jesus/seven-seals-revelations-jesus.html.

    I don't agree with everything, but I do agree about the first three horsemen. And, Hillary is on that track in this article. It is indeed the overcoming of the saints. 'toxon' is ALSO an award in Greek. Dig into Larry Wilson's stuff and backing research.

    The red horse: pretty much the Protestant Reformation. The 'sword' is The Word and it has caused many to kill and be killed ---- while it revealed who Jesus Christ is. (Something Catholicism most certainly does not).

    The black horse: the same wages are what Solomon paid to build the temple. Letting the Bible interpret the Bible is by far the way to go. Black horse = provision of the clergy.


    With the fourth horse, I part ways with wake-up.org as of now. I'm not convinced the one-fourth of mankind is killed, rather it has one authority over it that does kill. Perhaps this:
    http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/Articles/SteveSnider/MeetPaleHorse.html


    The fifth horse, I do think is what we're seeing around the world now w/ Christian persecution.

    The sixth seal, ***might*** be what we are starting to see with "stars" falling to the earth. Although, I'm not going to insist on that, because something about heavenly orbs *might* be involved (of course, not literal stars on the earth, but much like planets being called "stars" in that day, the orbs no longer obey predictable laws of nature. But, that's a lot to write about).

    And, the seventh is definitely not here.


    Thanks for the article. The only footnote I would add is there are other themes and topics in the Bible that MUST be included with Revelation. Daniel's 2300 days, Lev 23 Holy Days, the temple rituals and more must be included.

    For example, it is commonly claimed there is a remaining 70th week of Daniel. There is not. See Dan 7:25, Lev 23 Holy Days and the temple rituals PLUS the fact the entire point of the prophecy was ***when*** Messiah was coming. An arbitrary 69-to-70 gap renders the entire point of God answering up to conjecture. In addition, historical, astronomical and Bible prophecy all prove the 70th week was Christ's 3 1/2 year ministry followed by 3 1/2 years Christ still worked post-resurrection. See Paul's account of his 3-year training, and more.

    Dan 7:25

    You *cannot* change God's calendar and arrive at proper conclusions. The seven-year tribulation is merely another 'seven'.

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    1. Thanks for these resources, Ben. I agree that Daniel & so much more must be included with Revelation in order to gain a comprehensive understanding.

      I've heard about the theory that Daniel's 70th week has been partially fulfilled, and I'm all for non-traditional views (smile) but I still can't grab hold of this one. We know that the two witnesses will be here for 3.5 years. The beast that rises out of the bottomless pit (in the 5th trumpet) kills them before the 7th trumpet. There is still quite a bit of time to go after the witnesses are killed, including the bowls of wrath.

      I've not gotten down an IMHO-exact timeline yet (it's a work in progress) but I believe that the man of sin (2 Thess. 2) will be in power from the beginning of Daniel's 70th week along with the 2 witnesses. At the mid-point, with the AOD, the 2 witnesses are killed by the beast from the pit while the son of perdition (AC indwelt by satan) continues 42 months (Rev. 13:5) which is the last half, and includes the fall of Babylon. These are some fuzzy notes to be sure, but maybe there is something here of use.

      I appreciate your comment! Thanks for reading and sharing these links, too.

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  17. I disagree. All of seals can't be separate from the tribulation or Daniel's 70 weeks. When the 6th seal opens:
    - the sun turns black
    - the moon turns red
    - the stars fall to earth
    - the sky recedes

    ...just like in Matthew 24:29 when AFTER the tribulation:
    - the sun is darkened
    - the moon doesn't give light
    - the stars fall from the sky
    - the heavenly bodies are shaken

    This is the same event and it happens after the tribulation and at the opening of the 6th seal.

    Notice how the sky recedes at the 6th seal. It is pulled back to the point where people see God and fear the wrath that is about to come. They want to hide from the FACE of God and the wrath of the Lamb. Clearly this is the same time that Jesus returns and appears in the sky and all the nations mourn in Matthew 24:30.

    Therefore after opening the 6th seal...after the tribulation.... we will see the coming of the Son of Man.

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    1. Thanks for adding your thoughts, Tracy! Just for clarity, are you saying that the seals are at the end? After the trumpets and bowls? I'm not sure how "people see God and fear the wrath that is about to come" after the tribulation, when this time is all about God pouring out His wrath with the seven trumpets and seven bowls of wrath. After the tribulation, Jesus will set up His kingdom. Can you elaborate?

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    3. I agree with a Tracy about the 6th Seal and Matthew 24:29, but if you consider the Great Tribulation and the Tribulation are not the same you can reconcile the two views. IF you read on toMatthew 24:30,

      ““Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.”
      ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30‬ ‭NIV‬‬

      Notice Jesus is coming on the clouds of heaven, not stepping on the ground = rapture!

      See www.daniel11truth.com for more info.

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    4. Hi Stephanie!

      Here is where my views diverge a bit; I believe that Matthew 24 describes events leading up to the 2nd coming (the rapture was a mystery God revealed to Paul, and Jesus did not reveal it to the disciples). I created a chart comparing the two events here: Rapture vs. 2nd Coming (scroll down a bit, and then click the chart to enlarge it).

      I am not convinced that these celestial events are all one and the same. Just as there is more than one earthquake throughout Revelation, I believe there can be more than one darkening of the sun & more.

      I do think that the Eze. 38 war aligns with the events of the sixth seal. It also describes mountains being thrown down, along with hailstones, fire, brimstone and more.

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    5. @Stephanie

      "Notice Jesus is coming on the clouds of heaven, not stepping on the ground = rapture!"

      See Zech 14:4

      and, there's more.


      Elsewhere, scripture records Christ coming back to Jerusalem with His robes covered in blood. It's in Arabia, Mecca, perhaps NEOM?


      Christ is on the ground post Second Coming.

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  18. Hillary,
    Excellent article! I myself hold to some unorthodox beliefs too. I always believed that New York City was Babylon I thought 9/11 was a sign like, Babylon has fallen. I mean 911! We all know what that means. Emergency! God couldn't have been more clearer with that sign! I was also thinking about the 2000 years since Jesus has been gone. I think he will return for good in 2033 in set up his 1000 year reign. But this is just my vho! Peace & Love to all my Brothers & Sisters!

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  19. Very Interesting Work In Progress Hillary. ..The Following stuck out to me..

    ("When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence [in heaven] for [(about) half an hour.]")
    [or?; (approximately) 20yrs on earth]

    For Every Hour that passes by in Heaven, how much time has passed by on Earth?
    Let,
    a = 24 hours
    b = 1000 years
    Thus,
    b/a = 41.66 years (41 years, 7 months, 27 days, 14 hours, 24 minutes)

    For every minute that passes by in Heaven, how much time has passed by on Earth?
    Let,
    a = 24*60 minutes
    b = 1000 years
    c = 12 months
    Thus,
    b/a*c = 8.33 months (8 months, 28 days, 19 hours, 12 minutes)

    ..20 years?..Interesting!

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    1. Thanks for doing the math! I can't tell you how many times I've plugged away at this but math is definitely not my strong suit and I couldn't wrap my mind around this.

      I did read that this ritual described in ch. 7 actually really did take about 30 minutes in the temple on earth. So this one might be literal! All I know is....I can't wait! :)

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    2. 30 years ago?, I Couldn't Wait Either! LOL! Have since?, reluctantly!, learned Patience..but you know what?..I STILL CAN'T WAIT EITHER! LOL! :) Loveya! Sis!

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  20. Be encouraged, take heart, we talk to Him anytime.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVBNRCorPXk

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  21. Hi!

    While I appreciate reading alternative thoughts on prophecy, the general outline of Revelation is given in Revelation 1:19 'Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.'


    'What you have seen' is John's vision of Jesus in chapter 1.
    'The things which are' are the churches (representing the church age) in chapters 2-3.
    'The things that take place after this' is Rev chapter 4 onwards. That is why John is caught up in chapter 4 (as a type of the rapture) and is specifically told he will be shown 'the things that take place after this' (Rev 4:1). Revelation 4 owards is after the rapture and church age.

    Putting the seals in the church age breaks this outline and brings confusion in my opinion where interpreters start making the seals out to be any number of events throughout the last 2000 years. The seals are after the church age. They and the trumpets / bowls are 'the things after this - after the church age.

    My 2c. All the best.

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  22. Dear Hillary, to be frank first of all I completely disagree and will hold onto the "traditional" view of tribulation dispensation (the 'poor harvest' of Leviticus 22:23) when the main harvest = church age saints resurrected and raptured is definitely and irreversibly OVER. No mix of dispensations. "Traditional" doesn't always mean that everything has to be newly interpreted today because everything from old was / is bad. Just to be clear for you about my standpoint, no offense. ;) I'm at my smartphone typing and cannot explain elaborately this time like with Jeffs Reformation article...

    So I have a question for you about Revelation 6:4 when it says that "PEACE IS TAKEN FROM EARTH". What kind of peace must that be if the word for "earth" is the Greek term "ge" which means "the whole earth, global"? Whenever in mankind history was there "WORLD PEACE" yet? Please advise.

    I have then another question about Revelation 6:6 the big inflation / famine: when in mankind history was this worldwide inflation and famine (really ALL OVER THE GLOBE)? Now I live at my place quite secure and peacefully, I am not physically attacked at all currently and I can make a living (just for food, 1 person) for around 400 Dollar a month even including sweets and drugstore. How can this be compared to the situation described when little of basic nutrition will cost a whole days wage (which was the currency of 1 Denar at NT time)? So if I even work for minimum wage today 8 hours a day minus taxes and social costs it still cannot be compared to at my place because I still can buy sweets (which is more than just basic grain for bread) to a small price. And this place is still on earth so making part of Rev6:6 too. Currently there is no civil war, everybody's fine like in "Noahs days" and Lot's. Nobody even talking about endtimes here (at my place in Germany), everybody's still making future plans. Government's still functioning even if it is a stupid one.

    Some do interpret the seals as already happened in history "somewhere" (preterist view) but I understood from somewhere else that you are not preterist. So what is it then you are? Are these CURRENT GLOBAL SITUATIONS described which are valid FOR EVERYBODY ON EARTH (so why not for me)? Or did they only "already happen SOMEWHERE" in mankind history yet. You decide.

    Perhaps you will find out that they CANNOT have happened yet "somewhere on earth" yet nor even describe a current global situation correctly.

    And then the groups of tribulation saints you did unfortunately confuse. When grace is GONE there is no more grace gospel preached but another message and way of salvation. I highly recommend Robert Breakers "Tribulation Gospel" youtube video for everybody here to clarify once and for all. I don't agree with all things he teaches but this explanation of his is GROUNDBREAKING. You must understand that God doesn't mix the gospel messages during one period and how Revelation 14:6 corresponds to Galatians 1:8 exactly. I have never heard someone else explain this so easily. Furthermore Rev14:6 is a strong argument PRO pre-trib if there's nothing else.

    Perhaps my objections (which are only few but there are much more that I cannot lay out all of them here) can help to ponder the first give seals once again. Much love, bless you Jesus! :)

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    1. Hillary I forgot something important, just a sidenote: if you have already opened a letter or scroll being sealed by multiple seals, now how do you open it to read it? You have to BREAK ALL SEALS AT ONCE. Period. Blessings to you! :)

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    2. Hi Annabel! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I had to smile a bit when you said that I confused the gospels because I cannot tell you how many times I've been slammed for saying that the gospel of grace is no longer in effect during the tribulation. I, too, have seen and highly recommended Robert Breaker's Tribulation Gospel video many times. We agree on this :) So I am wondering if perhaps a re-read of what I wrote may help shine some light. If not, I need to be more clear because I resolutely believe that the gospel of grace is not in effect during the tribulation, although this was not the point of my article.

      I believe the innumerable multitude we see in Rev. 7 are believers from the age of grace. They are the raptured church (I believe in a pre-trib rapture) who overcame the enemy by the word of their testimony and the blood of the Lamb (faith in the blood). I very carefully pointed out that the other group (trib saints) are saved by faith plus works (they *keep the commandments of God* and the faith of Jesus, and they sing the song of Moses and the Lamb) during the age of the two witnesses & the angelic everlasting gospel (which is different than our gospel today).

      I agree that not everything "old" (traditional) is bad. It's important to me to examine all things, however, and not simply accept the traditional teachings or doctrines of men. The things that hold up to Scripture & the Holy Spirit remain; other things are released or examined more closely. I do not presume to know more than wise & gifted teachers on this topic, and realize I could be wrong. If so, may the Lord show me clearly!

      I'll follow up more in a new comment.

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    3. First, I do not believe this view can be wrapped up perfectly and tied with a pretty bow, which may be uncomfortable for some. I'm [gently] dogmatic about the gospel and Jesus, but that's about it. Do I still have questions? Are there things I cannot explain? Yes. However, I am convinced enough to hold this position firmly and continue praying and studying about the things I do not yet understand. We all "know in part" right now. That being said, this view is much more compelling to me from Scripture than the "traditional" one, and I believe that either view leaves questions and unexplainable parts (although, as in anything, you will have people who try to explain everything).

      I do not try to force anything to fit, and am honest about the fact that there are some things I cannot explain and do not know. Those who make it all fit perfectly scare me a little :) Does this disqualify me from having a position on this and writing about it? (Asked with humility.) Maybe. I am not a teacher and hope that anything I write draws people further into Scripture and closer to the Lord. If this happens, bless the Lord oh my soul! :)

      So while I can’t promise to have satisfactory answers for you, here are some thoughts prompted in response to your questions.

      I'm reminded of this passage in Zechariah: "I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white. Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be. And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth. And they answered the angel of the Lord that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest." Zech. 1:8-11

      Here we have a report from a rider on a red horse that the earth is at peace. This is a biblical report of “world peace.” It is a stark contrast to the rider sent out, also on a red horse, to take peace from the earth….which then reminds me of these words from Jesus: “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.” (Matt. 10:34)

      In what way could Jesus do this? And when does it begin? Does it begin after the rapture, if the seal opens after the rapture, or does it begin within the nearly 2000-years before? In my humble opinion, it began after Jesus rocked the whole world with His ministry, crucifixion, and resurrection, and the message of Christianity began to spread over the earth and challenge other religions & status quo.

      Regarding your question about the big inflation / famine: again, going to Zechariah: “….These are four spirits of heaven, who go out from their station before the Lord of all the earth. The one with the black horses is going to the north country, the white are going after them, and the dappled are going toward the south country.” (Zech. 6:5-6; please read Zech. 6:1-8 for additional context).

      So here we see the black horse going to the North country. Rev. 6:5-6 could be worldwide, but the passage does not actually say so, and when comparing it to Zechariah, I submit that the black horse with the scales, and the famine, is specific to the North country. Now the question becomes, which exactly is the North country? I have theories, but I don’t know.

      I appreciate you raising the questions and having a kind dialogue. As sisters in Christ, we can grow together, sharpen each other, and as needed, agree to disagree. The important thing is love, and truth, when it comes to the essentials, and I am confident we agree on that! God bless you!

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    4. Interesting! The things that amazes me the most is just how precise and amazing the Lord is. I mean, think about how many brilliant minds in history who ponder the things of God, and just stand in amazement. Prophecy is like that, I mean, so many layers to things. All praise to Jesus Christ! The other interesting thing, is no matter what your take on things is, if you are not lukewarm, you feel it is very soon! MARANATHA!!!

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    5. Dear Hillary first of all TY for your reply. Now I know where we must have misunderstood: The "multitude" of Revelation 7 is NOT the church. This can very easily be proved because chapter 7 and 14 directly mirror each other. The church is OUT long before. In both chapters, only tribulation saints are described from Jews and Gentiles. That's why I remarked to you not mixing the dispensations and gospel messages. -- TY for mentioning the horses from Zechariah, I have to think about them again and will answer later to this. Your comments are much appreciated! Blessings to you :)

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    6. I agree with Annabel concerning this topic. Also, a brother (or sister) has made a good point previously saying:

      "Putting the seals in the church age breaks this outline and brings confusion in my opinion where interpreters start making the seals out to be any number of events throughout the last 2000 years."

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    7. Hillary, again back to Zechariah: this whole (!) book deals with the restoration of Israel through judgement during tribulation period and gives an outlook on millennium here and there. It is full of symbolism like Revelation is, not really easy to understand (I agree). But the diverse "horses" in different colors you see here are not "THE horseMEN". If you go into the Hebrew of Zechariah 1:11 you should ponder the words for "still" (H3427) and "rest" (H8252). This is not "world peace" but describing a kind of "waiting / riping for judgement" in the endtimes days of Noah (people just going their way, noticing nothing). This is the proper implication of these words. Again, I pondered this in my Holy Spirit and if this Spirit is the same to you (which I cannot know from your article like this really) He will tell you that you err. Please do not confuse people by not rightly dividing scriptures into a troubling sense of "tribulation has already begun we're at the 5th seal and we didn't notice". You would not do a better job then as the people Paul warned the brethren of in 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3 I beg you! Don't confuse the precious flock of God with things you only understood little and digested only half of it. Thank you and MARANATHA!

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    8. Hi Annabel, I respect your opinion about Rev. 7 not being the church multitude, and I kindly maintain my position at this time. Here is why:

      "...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." Rev. 7:14-17

      Now, compare this to:

      "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." (Rev. 3:10-13)

      In the first passage, where it says "out of great tribulation," the phrase "out of" is Greek "ek."
      In the second passage, where it says "keep thee from the hour of temptation," the word "from" is Greek "ek."

      They are the same word. In addition, both passages describe people (which I believe is the church) who remain in the presence of God in the temple.

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    9. Dear Hillary, the discussion about "ek" from Rev3:10 is very old and only mid- or post-tribbers maintain it to confuse the flock without considering any notice of context and dispensations. So you're not pre-trib? OK, I'm out here. God bless.

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    10. Hi Annabel,
      I am not familiar with mid- or post-tribbers using this, and I certainly do not use it to create confusion. I am pre-trib, as in according to Scripture there will be a harpazo before Daniel's 70th week. God's blessings and peace to you.

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  23. Just an observation... actually Rev 6:12-14 sounds allot like a huge volcanic eruption. All of what John describes fall in line, and in order, of a horrific global volcanic eruption. The sky goes black from smoke and ash, the moon turns red because of the ash in the atmosphere, an earthquake can be felt world wide, lightning and thunder crack constantly because of the static discharges, and rocks fall from the sky for miles (I remember how they described the debris falling from Mt. Saint Hellens in 1980, "like figs falling from the sky"). I'm thinking possibly the super volcano in Yellowstone? In any case I have been watching recent earthquake, and volcanic activity for the past couple years. Interestingly enough, since August 21 2017 (the last 75 days), there has been more 5.5 and above earthquake activity, and frequency, than in the last 2 years that I have been watching. As far as volcanic activity... since the 1940s there were on average normally 10 to 15 volcanoes in constant eruption, that increased to around 20 to 25 in June of 1967 (think Jerusalem regained). Early this year it increased to 35 volcanoes in constant eruption, and there have also been a firestorm of minor earthquakes in Yellowstone this year like never before. Just a thought... The season of the end of the age of the gentiles is upon us, let us share the gospel like never before in love and hope... Sela...

    Here are a couple sites to look at...

    click the settings icon on this site to list different magnitudes and periods, zoom out to see world wide
    https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/

    https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/erupting_volcanoes.html

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    1. Dear GrowInGrace2000 do you know the YouTube channel "Planet X Physicist Dr Claudia Albers"? She talks about electrical universe, very interesting. In French Alpes there were 140 earthquakes recently at once. Guess what might be the trigger... ;)

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  24. BTW... great article Hillary, and a good study to ponder. I enjoyed the read, and am enjoying the various links. All good stuff to think about, but most of all let us all continue to keep our focus on sharing the gospel of our Redeemer, Lord, and Savior Jesus Christ. For when His church enrollment is complete, then He will come take us home. Amen and Maranatha to everyone...

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    1. Thank you, Grow in Grace. Great reminder! Maranatha!

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  25. Totally agree Hillary, not sure if you have seen my thread on this very topic
    http://unsealed.boards.net/thread/133/revised-view-pretrib-rapture

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    1. Hi RT! I think I started to read the thread and saved it to finish for later (there were still several pages to go). I believe I left a comment at one point because I saw that we were on a similar wavelength but I've not had the time to continue reading. I want to for sure! I just popped onto the forum...it's been a while since I've been there and I see there is much to catch up on. Thanks for reading! I look forward to continuing the journey through yours.

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    2. I thought you left a comment at one point and I looked back through and found it. Seems like you and I are pretty much on the same page. I would love for you to finish reading the thread and let me know your thoughts on it. I know very few people who have reached the same conclusions, there are some, but not many. It is really difficult for folks to disregard the foundation of understanding that they have been taught and to set aside preconceived ideas in order to see with fresh eyes. Thanks for sharing, it is good to know that I am not alone in seeing it the same way you do.

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  26. Hillary, I want to thank you so very much for this study. As with other "settled" issues over the years, the Spirit has used you to call me to re-examine what I was taught was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I have never failed to benefit from such a call. "That's what we've always believed" or "because we say so and I'm comfortable with that" is not ok. My belief must be my own, confirmed by the Holy Spirit within. If it will not withstand scrutiny, then it is not mine - it is a mantra I've been handed. Cognitive dissonance is the refutation of information to maintain a mental comfort level. Old or new is not a qualitative assessment. Every belief should be able to withstand scriptural scrutiny and I thank Gary and Jeff for allowing us this forum to do so. More time in the Word investigating and either reaffirming or refuting a position is worthwhile. There is great disagreement in the body about the timing of the Rapture. Many in the PreTrib crowd have slammed the door on the mid-trib and pre-wrath and shoved those brothers and sisters aside without answering their questions. I believe it is absolutely pretrib, but with "issues" unresolved. What if it's correct? What Hillary - and many others I find since I've opened my eyes to investigate - has proposed resolves many of those questions without sacrificing Pre-Trib. My unanswered that I've swept under the rug. 1-Why do believers appear in the throne room (where the Elders are already enthroned) to see a beaten, crucified lamb APPEAR AFTER 2,000 years? Time is not irrelevant in Heaven for there is silence for a half hour. 2-Why absolutely nothing (scripturally) for 2,000 years of the church age while Jesus is at the Father's right hand? The Father makes thine enemies thy footstool - when? Jesus is opening seals to release Anti-Christ and judgements at the Trib. Where is the work the Father has been doing? Hillary is calling me to give an answer. Either I defend scripturally what I believe or some part was in error and I adjust. My Father will never allow me to err when I pray for Truth, but if I don't ask, I don't learn. I defend my position or change it. We are not called to be comfortable and coast - we are called to use the Sword and the Word is the Sword. I am not afraid of my Bible, it is always right. This is certainly not a salvation issue, however, it is important to the Body and to Eschatological discussions. If there is a scriptural answer not fully revealed until now bringing into agreement Pre, Mid, Pre-Wrath without sacrificing the Pre-Trib Rapture of the church, this would be a great revelation. By understanding the seals beginning at or some time shortly after the Crucifixion and leading throughout history they become not judgement, but the Work of the Father and the Spirit. This prevents this NOTHING FOR 2,000 YEARS - then everything compressed into 7 years. Pre-Trib Rapture remains, the time we are in and just about ready to leave here remains, Revelation goes back to much closer to Chronological with only a couple points of parenthetical input and we rid the church of a large point of dispute. None of this matters if we can't get there scripturally - but, I for one, plan to dig and learn and decide for myself and I am grateful for Hillary for encouraging me to know my Bible better.

    Blessings - Sherry

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    1. Interesting thoughts Sherry. I recall Jacob Prasch asking similar questions, however his commentary was more re-raising the age old question of the differences between the 70th week of Daniel, vs time of Jacobs trouble vs 'Great' Tribulation vs 'wrath of the Lamb'. We still lump them all together, however Jacob spent a number of chapters addressing the differences, although he used the book of Job to some extent to explain these. I am 'intra-seal' in my beliefs, however I would clarify my position as being pre-jacobs trouble, pre-wrath and almost mid-70th week (depending on timing). The reason why I believe Hillary's study is an interesting one, is simply due to the amount of time we allocate to the time of Jacobs trouble and its association with the whole concept of 'tribulation'. Many questions remain unanswered still from my perspective...heck even post-tribbers give us grief on our concept of 'we are not appointed until wrath', where they argue that if we simply read the rest of the verse 'but to receive salvation', we would see that this does not refer to the revelation wrath of the lamb, but damnation. Of course we point out the context of the entire Chapter of I Thess 5 when discussing our opinion. Anyway, thats all to really say, I agree with your final comment about gratitude for alternative opinions, forcing us to study our bible more.

      Ryan

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    2. Sherry -

      After the rapture, God goes back to dealing with Israel.

      The rapture is pictured in chapter 4.

      If you notice, the language in chapter 5 forward becomes very "Jewish".... the references to Jesus are Old Testament language, i.e. "Jewish" -- "the Lion of the tribe of Judah", "the Root of David".... AND "the Lamb" -- which Jews would recognize from the Old Testament as a picture of the Messiah.

      Note, Jesus showing up in v.6 as the Lamb does NOT mean he has just arrived on the scene, bloodied and wounded, fresh off of the cross. It just symbolizes that God has now turned His attention to Israel & the time of Jacob's trouble.

      Also, notice that He is standing in v. 6... this shows that that there's a transition taking place. He's going from sitting at the right hand of the Father, to claim His place of ruling on the earth after the trib.

      Also, He's turning over His duties as our High Priest -- we no longer need a High Priest because we're now in Heaven. In verse 8 you see the 24 elders (the raptured body of Christ -- us) holding the bowls of incense (prayers of the trib saints who are still on the earth) - we are now assuming our duties as priests (Jesus told us we would be kings & priests - v. 10 we sing about it in our new song)

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    3. @mksmith

      (Spiritual) "Israel" is the church, see Romans.

      Ancient Israel is what God said He'd make of them, see Gen 35:11 "a nation and a company of nations".

      The political state of Israel is ---not--- Israel of ancient. They are what the bible, explicitly, says they are: the House of Judah.

      The House of Israel are not Jews, they are the majority of physical Israel AND they have Abrahamic physical birthright covenant with them ('the birthright is Joseph's').

      The birthright covenant starts in Genesis and runs throughout scripture all the way to Revelations where we see it fulfilled in the spiritual realm: there are TWO resurrections. (And, TWO deaths).



      Jacob = ALL of Israel: House of Judah and House of Israel. A nation and a company of nations, Gen 35:11.

      Jacob's trouble is ALL of those nations, not just the political state of Israel, which isn't "Israel" at all per end times, they are the House of Judah.

      The 'lion' and 'lamb' are not Jewish, not any more than the fact Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and ALL the patriarchs sans Judah are not Jewish.

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    4. Sherry, thank you for reading and for sharing your insights! I appreciate that this article is inviting you deeper into Scripture to test all things & hold fast the good, while releasing what is not good (whether that is from this article or from traditions & doctrines of men that do not align with truth).

      You wrote: "Old or new is not a qualitative assessment. Every belief should be able to withstand scriptural scrutiny and I thank Gary and Jeff for allowing us this forum to do so."

      I agree, and am grateful for readers like you. Please stay in touch and share the things God confirms to you through His word.

      God bless you.

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  27. I saw the white horse in the clouds. I even took a picture of it and posted on facebook.

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  28. Hi Hillary - I am replying to my earlier comment. To be upfront, I have been following this page for many months when I learned about the Rev 12 sign. While I always leaned toward a post-trib rapture, during the months surrounding Sept 23 I started to question myself. I agree that we are in end times and that there are many signs to indicate this, and I truly appreciate all the work that has gone into the research and studies produced by this site. I know you are earnestly seeking the return of the Lord. However, the more and more I read scriptures...and the more and more I prayed, the clearer and clearer the message of Jesus' return became. While in no way am I claiming that I understand it all or that I have the answers, I strongly feel that there is no pre-tribulation rapture that is supported by scriptures. You asked me to clarify my earlier comment, so here goes:

    IMHO, only the 7 bowls are God's wrath and they come after the seals are open and after the trumpets are sounded. Rev 15:1 says the bowls are last because with them God's wrath is completed.
    However I do not think the trumpets come after the seals. The scriptures imply that the trumpets are layered with the seals; they occur with the seals, not after them. It is not clear if each seal is announced with a trumpet sound; however, it is clear that by the 7th trumpet Jesus has/is about to arrive just I like referenced upon the opening of the 6th seal. At the sounding of the 7th trumpet, Rev 11:15-19 says:
    - "the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our lord"
    - "your wrath has come"
    - "the time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants and prophets"
    - "Then God's temple in heaven was opened" (similar to how the sky recedes at the 6th seal)

    Notice that at the 7th trumpet wrath has come with Jesus' return...but also his judging and his rewarding! According to 1 Thes 5:1-4, the whole event is called the "day of the Lord" and is associated with the phrase "thief in the night." At this event,
    - Jesus returns
    -Rapture/resurrection occurs
    - Destruction/wrath comes upon the rest of the people...and they will not escape

    This sequence of events also is indicated in Daniel 12:1-3 which says, "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But AT THAT TIME your people - everyone whose name is found written in the book - will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."
    Notice how there is a time of great distress at the same time of the rapture/resurrection. In fact, the words used here are almost the exact same as those used by Jesus in Mathew 24:21 when he is talking about the tribulation, "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now - and never to be equaled again."
    Also since judging and rewarding comes after the 7th trumpet, we know the rapture/resurrection must be occurring then too. Luke 14:12-14 states that the timing of the reward is associated with resurrection/rapture of the church. This also is noted in other places too, see 1 Corith 4:5 and 2 Timothy 4:8.

    To conclude, not all the seals will be opened before the star of the tribulation. Scripture clearly tells us that when Jesus returns (referenced many times as "the coming of the Son of Man" and "the Day of the Lord"), it will be after the tribulation, the rapture/resurrection will occur, he will then reward believers, and the rest of mankind will face his wrath as described with the pouring out of the 7 bowls.

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    1. Tracy~The Scriptures clearly teach that those who are "in Christ" are not appointed to wrath. I may or may not be correct, but in my studies have come to the conclusion that "wrath" refers to ALL 3 WRATHS of the Book of Revelation. Here's the conclusion I came to and how I got there: http://lynmelvin.blogspot.com/2017/09/saved-from-wrath.html
      Blessings to you as you continue to seek Him<3

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    2. Hi Tracy

      yes the concept of 'wrath' and the timing of it is one of the main things that distinguishes pre/mid (pre-wrath)/post tribulation believers (its not the only thing however). I am intra-seal (pre-wrath).

      Some things to consider (in response to Lyn's comment above) regarding 'wrath':
      - some believe the "not appointed unto wrath" noted in 1 Thes 5 speaks of the wrath of the Fathers judgement/hell, as the same verse clearly notes "but unto the purchasing of salvation". The context in the verse is one of salvation, not tribulation, however the context of the chapter is one of tribulation, so hence why some of the differences in opinion start here. The book of Romans talks about 'wrath' in different aspects of salvation vs tribulation as well.
      - does not being appointed unto wrath mean we totally escape it, or are simply kept from harm throughout it, although we may endure discomfort as a result of it. The flood is a perfect example of this, where Noahs family saw Gods 'wrath' being poured out onto a sinful world, yet were not consumed by his wrath. We also know throughout scriptures that the righteous suffered alongside the un-righteous when Gods judgement (wrath) was placed on unbelieving Israel. This does not mean that the appointment of Gods judgement were for the righteous, but they suffered alongside the unbelieving. We see this in the middle east, China, Africa etc all the time.
      - finally - as Lyn alludes to above, different commentators all have different perspectives on what exactly is included in the 'wrath of the lamb/father', and who it is appointed for. Rev 6:17 makes it clear that the wrath of the lamb AND the father has come, and so we should be able to pick out clues as to whom the wrath was intended for. We know in Rev 14 and 16 that the Lambs wrath was intended for 'those who carried the beasts image and worshiped his image', and babylon (p.s. - its always interesting to ask why Revelation 16:15 was placed here...). So many of us believe that since we will not be carrying the beasts mark etc, we won't be 'appointed until wrath'. Anyway, just some thoughts...
      Ryan

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  29. THANK YOU HILLARY AND UNSEALED! There just was not enough evidence to prove a pre-Seal Rapture for me, so recently I sought the Lord about it. He reminded me of a Steve Cioccolanti teaching that parallels what you wrote, Hillary, of the seals being pre-Trib. HALLELUJAH! Here's my blog article that records my frustration and God's answer: http://lynmelvin.blogspot.com/2017/08/september-23-day-of-lord.html
    HUGS AND BLESSINGS!

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. God bless you, sister! Thanks for the link...I look forward to reading what you've discovered! I rejoice that God answered your prayers ...oh, what a glorious, faithful and gracious Father we have!

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  30. I am reluctant to comment much anymore, because my views have been stated, and restating them could come across the wrong way. We all are believers and our salvation is not given to just the ones that has the rapture timing correct. We are a special group of Christianity that is discussing such topics.

    I am not a prophet by no means, but as just a serious bible stydier, I predict after many days, weeks, and many months go by, we will still be here , but in ever increasing turmoil. I feel the pretrib views will slowly morph into Prewrath views when we actually see we are in great tribulation.

    Just to clarify my terminology, I see the trumpet/bowl judgments as being God's wrath, and starting right after the 6th seal rapture. I used to be pretrib, but there are several scriptures that just do not fit.

    I would love to escape all the tribulation, but don't see it in the scriptures. I have started typing up my views with scriptures, but I feel my time and energy is better spent workung on unsaved ones, instead of just preaching to the choir here.

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    1. I pray for you that you will be surprise to be with all true believers soon as pre-trib is in fact the only way to interpret scripture. Blessings! :)

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    2. Hi Stan, I sympathize with your position! However, I do hold to a pre-trib view, although I find the word "tribulation" itself misleading. Jesus promised that in the world we will have tribulation (John 16:33) but to be of good cheer, because He has overcome the world. Paul reminds us (the Church) that in all these things (tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, the sword, etc) we are more than conquerors. (Rom. 8:35-39)

      To clarify, I hold a "pre-Daniel's-70th-week" view. As my article states I believe that the seals are pre-trib, and this falls in a pre-Daniel's-70th-week timeframe and also harmonizes with Jesus and Paul as referenced above.

      Once the restrainer is removed (via the rapture of the Church) it will be a new dispensation. We are not appointed to wrath, and Jesus already paid for our sin so we do not need judgment. IMHO, the events found in the seals are not Daniel's-70th-week.

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  31. Thanks for a great article. I have studying along these line also. Here is a great pre-trib video on this very idea. https://youtu.be/ePk2ZSe-sSI That we rapture out on the 6th seal. The seals have been opened during the church age. It's worth considering.
    I love sharing all these things with other believers around the world.
    We are living in exciting times and its great to be watching with others who are also looking eagerly for our blessed hope!

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    1. Thanks, Steven! I look forward to viewing the video you shared. God bless, & Maranatha!

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  32. Hi Hilary,

    re: your quote above "I believe the innumerable multitude we see in Rev. 7 are believers from the age of grace. They are the raptured church (I believe in a pre-trib rapture)"

    I was wondering how you reconcile a Pre-Trib rapture AND have the multitude of Rev 7 being the raptured church when it specifically says that this multitude 'came OUT OF the great tribulation' (Rev 7:14). ie they came out of it, not before it so ever this isn't the church or it is and it isn't a pre-trib rapture.

    Some extra food for thought here if interested from Renald Showers on why it isn't the church:

    "But, is “the great multitude” that is in Revelation 7 the Church? It really can’t be. Let me explain to you why we would say that. Please note that the Apostle John clearly stated that all these people who make up this great multitude came out of the great tribulation. In other words, every one of these persons was living here on the earth during at least part of the future Great Tribulation and then come out of that to Heaven. If this is the Church, then you’re forced to conclude this would be a partial Rapture of the Church or a part of the Church being raptured out of the world. Only that part of the Church which would be alive on the earth during the Great Tribulation of the second half of the 70th week of Daniel...

    In addition, when one of the 24 elders said to John, “These are they which came out of the great Tribulation,” the verb translated “came” is in the Greek present tense, and again, the normal significance of the present tense, unless the context indicates otherwise—which it doesn’t do here—the normal significance of the Greek present tense is continuous action. So that in essence, the elder is saying to John, “These are they who are coming out continuously, one after another, from the Great Tribulation to Heaven.” How? Through death—through martyrdom, or through natural death.

    Interestingly, Dr. A. T. Robertson who has been regarded as the foremost Greek scholar of America in the twentieth century, talking about the significance of the present tense of this exact verb here in Revelation 7:14 says it’s indicating continuous action. And again, what it’s stating is, these saints are coming out of the Great Tribulation one by one by one by one as they’re experiencing death, either through martyrdom or natural death throughout the course of the second half of the Great Tribulation. By contrast, the Rapture passages indicate that the Church is not raptured one person and then another person and then another person, but the Church is raptured in one lump sum, one group, at the same time caught up from the earth to meet the Lord Jesus in the air and taken to the Father’s house in Heaven to live in the mansions there that Jesus is preparing for His Church right now."

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    1. TY you are very correct, elgordo. I stated to Hillary in a comment above why Revelation chapter 7 and 14 mirror each other. Her article is rather confusing than clarifying. Blessings to you!

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    2. Hi elgordo, I posted this comment to Annabel above and will also post it here, as it applies to both. I respect your opinion about Rev. 7 not being the church multitude, and I kindly maintain my position at this time. Here is why:

      "...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes." Rev. 7:14-17

      Now, compare this to:

      "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." (Rev. 3:10-13)

      In the first passage, where it says "out of great tribulation," the phrase "out of" is Greek "ek."
      In the second passage, where it says "keep thee from the hour of temptation," the word "from" is Greek "ek."

      They are the same word. In addition, both passages describe people (which I believe is the church) who remain in the presence of God in the temple.

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    3. Hi Hilary and thanks for the reply. I'm not sure what the Unsealed comment world record is but, for various reasons, this is getting up there! So I do appreciate the fact that you have taken time to reply to the comments. Even to those that disagree like me! :)

      Regarding 'ek' you are correct that it is the same Greek word also used in Rev 3:10. One is translated 'from' and one is translated 'out of' but it actually makes no difference because of the surrounding Greek words. For example, if I translate 'ek' as 'from' in both passages it is:
      Rev 3:10 'I will also keep you 'from' the hour of trial...'
      Rev 7:14 'These are they who have come 'from' the great tribulation...'
      In the first case they will not see the tribulation, in the second they do and come from within it.

      How about if we translate both as 'out of'?
      Rev 3:10 'I will also keep you 'out of' the hour of trial...'
      Rev 7:14 'These are they who have come 'out of' the great tribulation...'
      Again it is the same. In the first case they will not see the tribulation, in the second they do and come out of it.

      In short, a person can't believe in a Pre-Trib rapture and believe that the multitude in Rev 7 (who come 'out of' or 'from' the Great tribulation) is the church. It ends with confusion. Either the multitude is NOT the church OR it is not a pre-trib rapture.

      Also bear in mind the other point that the Greek shows a continual coming out of the Great Tribulation for the multitude in Rev 7, not an all at once rapture. Dr A.T Robertson, a Koine Greek scholar, writes (in his 'Robertson's Word Pictures') the following of Rev 7:14
      "They which come out of the great tribulation (hoi erchomenoi ek tēs thlipseōs tēs megalēs): Present middle participle with the idea of continued repetition. “The martyrs are still arriving from the scene of the great tribulation” (Charles)."

      You wrote further down "I realize it isn't always comfortable to have long-held views questioned" - That is true, for all of us, and I trust that you too can jettison your own views when they are shown to be wrong.

      Though I don't agree with this article, may God bless and have a good day! : )

      PS Think also about what the 'after this' relates to in Rev 4:1. Everything shown to John from Rev 4:1 onwards are things that occur 'after this'. So what is the 'this' in that passage speaking of? It is an important question for the overall structure and interpretation of Revelation!

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    4. Hi elgordo,

      I appreciate the kind spirit in which you present your disagreements. Thank you for that. I hope you take the time to watch the video I shared, which was shared with me by a fellow commenter.

      It appears that the word "ek" is an issue for some. Ok, we can take it off the table. It still remains that the group of people in Rev. 7 are fitting the description of those from Rev. 3:12....a continual presence in the temple before God. Those who are being beheaded / martyred for their faith (the ones experiencing tribulation) show up in Rev. 15:4. This is at the end of the trumpets, which is clear from verses 6-8 and chapter 16. (The Rev. 7 group appears before the first trumpet.)

      The Rev. 7 group sings the song of salvation, while the Rev. 15 group sings the song of Moses and the Lamb. (This point indicates that the two groups are from two different dispensations.)

      I know this is a brief reply, and I am not trying to change your view (if anything needs to be changed, for any of us, that is up to the Holy Spirit) but to explain a few more of the reasons I kindly maintain my position at this time. I am firmly pre-trib, and I believe that there is harmony (and no confusion) by interpreting the Rev. 7 group as believers and that the seals begin in the Church age, rather than in Daniel's 70th week. Again, I am so grateful for your kind approach to the discussion and may God bless you!

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    5. ^^ I meant Rev. 15:2 regarding the martyred group.

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    6. Elgordo

      Yes indeed. Small things such as Rev 4:1's "After these things" is actually off great importance and must be paid attention to all throughout the bible.

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  33. Wow what an amazing study! Thank you so much Hillary, so very much! Much Love! God Bless!

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    1. Matthew, thank you so much! I appreciate your kind support & love. God bless you, brother! Maranatha!

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  34. https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5038153,00.html

    The timing about talking seals and horses. Look, as for me, this is symbolic.... number 70, Horses ( of various colors )

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  35. Another view on Revelation 6:12-16/19. One year event and not 7. (Deut 24:5; Jhn 6:39, 40, 44,54; Isa 61:1-2; Isa 34:8; Isa 63:4; Psalms 117-118; The Flood, Exod 6:6-8-15:19 or 24:1-8; Isa 54; and Jesus's death, burial Ressurrection was not 7 years but less than 20 days. If you want to understand Revelation, your best bet is to understand Genesis to Joshua 6. The Flood took one year, not 7 years. The 10 plagues of the Exodus and up to Pentecost took place in 7 months, not 7 years. Psalms 117 is the rapture and Psalms 118 is the Second Coming with Day of Trumpet (v. 5); Ezekiel 38-39 War which ends with Marriage of the Groom and Bride and then Armageddon at v. 10, and then the Messianic KIngdom begins on the Feast of Tabernacles at v. 15. Deut 24:5 is war at Armageddon and the taking of the bride is the rapture. Last Day in John 6 is the last year which is the year of Jubilee or the Final Jubilee (120th Jubilee from Creation). IN this view, we have an axial poleshift at Seal 6, followed by the Trumpet Judgments over the first 5 months brought in by Nibiru/PLanet X, and then the Bowl Judgments for the last 7 months brought in by Nuclear War (WWIII).
    Rev 2:10 has 10 days of Tribulation which can be 10 years of Tribulation from Day of Trumpet to Day of Atonement (2007-2017). Within it you have 2 7 year start frames based on 1947 proclamation of Israel and 1948 when Israel became a nation +62 Pentecosts (weeks/Feasts of weeks)=2009 for the Antichrist covenant of many and 2010 for the Messianic Covenant of many) = 7 years = 2016 for the Antichrist Appearance and 2017 for the Messianic Appearance. Then the one year follows. Then 10 days beginning on the Day of Trumpet.

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  36. As to the fifth seal, I understand Hillary is saying in this world we have tribulation. She references John 16:33.
    I see her analogy in using John 16:33 as her belief that the seals have been opening since Christ had returned to heaven (rather than in the 7-year tribulation period).
    In the world, we have tribulation - struggles, heartache, suffering and so forth. Her point being that not all of the seals are about judgement. For example, seal 5 is referring to those under the altar (whomever they may be) to rest a little longer (Revelation 6:9-11).

    While I am writing, I would also like to comment about the seals needing to be opened all at once. I have read that a seal was placed at the edge of each roll of the scroll to prevent anyone from looking into what it said. So, my understanding is that they do not need to be opened all at once. Whatever is in that portion of that seal would then begin. For example, the seventh seal contains the seven trumpets and the seventh trumpet contains the seven bowls.
    Cathi

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    1. I agree, Cathi. The seals do not all need to be opened at once. Thank you for adding this to the discussion! Lots of love in Christ, Hillary

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  37. Hillary, this is a nice writing and you could be right, or you could be wrong. I'm too old to worry about when the Seals occur. Kudos to the people on this website though, I have never seen so many intelligent people write articles and make comments.

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  38. Hillary you quoted, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.” (Matt. 10:34)

    Then you asked 3 questions.

    1.) In what way could Jesus do this?
    The “sword” he uses is the “storm/whirlwind of the LORD”, Isaiah 28:2, Jeremiah 4:11-13, Jeremiah 50:33-40 and in Ezekiel 38:8 we read of Gog attempting to destroy “those gathered and brought back from the SWORD out of the nations”. Also in Ezekiel 39:25-29

    2.) And when does it begin?

    On the “day of the LORD” that I believe begins on a 24 Kislev and could fulfil Haggai 2:7, “the desire of the nations” is Jesus and Haggai 2:21-23 over 3 days from December 12-14, 2017.
    The “chosen shepherd from the least of the flock, is Jesus who will stand before God” it is he used as the right hand of God who will desolate their habitation” Jeremiah 50:44-46 and Micah 5:2-5

    3.) Does it begin after the rapture?

    It is a “simultaneous event” over a period of 3 days that occurs BEFORE the ‘second Exodus/rapture’ into the wilderness. Jeremiah 30:23- Jeremiah 31:2, Ezekiel 20:33-38, Hosea 6:1-3 and Revelation 12:14-17.

    The USA will be taken out of the way BEFORE the “chosen shepherd” does his desolating work. Jeremiah 4:7-9, Jeremiah 50:43 which could be as early as November 18, 2017 which just happens to be the 322nd day of the year.

    As to understanding the “seals” I can’t believe no one has associated the “fourth seal” and its pale/green horse rider as the antichrist whom the saints are given into his hand for a “time, time and dividing time”, Daniel 7:25 and have not connected it to Revelation 12:14-17?

    Lest we forget that there is NO PLACE in the Original Testament that refers to 1260 days or 42 months so Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:7 are the “benchmarks” as to Daniel 9:24 and its “Seventy” they began on March 21, 1948 and count out on March 20, 2018 possibly making the “hour” of Revelation 18:10-17, November 18, 2017 and the “day” of 24 Kislev be December 12, 2017 and the “dividing time” be March 20/21, 2018.

    Great discussion and dialogue going on here, glad that I could participate. Lauren

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  39. Well, Hillary, reading through the comments above, it seems you've opened up quite the can of worms with this article. Very confusing stuff. Kind of makes a guy wonder, 1 Corinthians 14:33

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  40. Great study Hillary. As many have pointed out, we see in part and look though a mirror dimly right now and that is why there are differences of our understanding of prophecy. And that is why it is good to have a discussion like this because we want to know God's word better and we want to know the Word giver better. I hold to the view that the first seal reveals the rider on the white horse who is the Antichrist and the Antichrist is not revealed until the restrainer, the Holy Spirit in the Church is removed by the rapture. I also think the sixth seal is the Abomination of Desolation, at the mid-way point of the Tribulation when Satan and 1/3 stars are cast down to earth. From a Dispensation standpoint, it makes sense that the seven years of the Tribulation period are the week of discipline that remains for the Jews ... not the Church (Daniel 9:26). This is what Clarence Larkin believed and wrote about. Larkin also wrote that because a day with the Lord is like 1,000 years that God has ordained 7,000 years for sinful man. Since we know we have 7 years of Tribulation left and 1,000 years of Millennium, the rapture of the Church should occur in the year 5993, since 5993+7+1000=7000. That being said I have put together some evidence that the year 2017 is the 5993 since creation. http://the5993sign.com/ Blessings brothers and sisters, Christ is building His Church and gates of Hades will not prevail against it! (Matthew 16:18)

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    1. I went to the site linked above (http://the5993sign.com/) and the title/headline read:

      The 5993 Sign
      This is the year of the Rapture!
      October 19-22, 2017

      Did we all miss it?

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    2. Good one! I have updated the web site to state 2017 is the year of the rapture, removing the specific date, although technical since Rosh Hashanah we are in year 5994 (or 5778 from the shortened Jewish reckoning). Like many of my fellow watchmen, I have grown weary with date setting. No, we have not missed the rapture but we have missed understanding the day and the hour of the rapture, since we see in part and look through a mirror dimly. Plus I think surprise of the Lord's appearing is part of the joy that Jesus wants to share with His Bride, the Church. We may not know the day or hour but there are many signs that tell us this is the year and the season. If you would like to look at the research I have done on the 5993 sign continue to this site: http://die2live.worthyofpraise.org/rapture-countdown-1234567/

      Blessing to you, Rogersings

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    3. Hello Roger Sings. I checked it out. Looks like you've put a lot of work into it. Unfortunately, the guy here (http://2028end.com/) apparently put a lot of work into it as well, and he came out with a different Rapture year. Perhaps you could explain which of you got it wrong, and why. If you don't want to do it in this thread, you can write me directly: gerry.rzeppa@pobox.com

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    4. Thanks DJ, It will take me a while to look into this on the 2028 date. Once you start to study Bible timelines you will see that hundreds of people have made calculations through the Ages to the earth's beginning, the most popular one is Ussher's which my calculations agree with his up to the point of the Exodus, 2513 AD. After the Exodus dates for births are no longer given and calculations are more difficult. So I went to sources to find when did the Exodus occur the (BC date) so I could add the 2513 years to that date but there is no clear consensus on the date of the Exodus. I will plan to write to you at your email address. Blessings.

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    5. Sorry, I don't mean 2513 AD but 2513 AM, Anno Mundi, meaning "in the year of the world" a calendar era based on the biblical accounts of the creation of the world and subsequent history. If the Exodus occurred 1464 BC as indicated in the book “The Messiah and His Kingdom to Come: A Biblical Road Map” by Robert A Makar. Then 2513 AM + 1464 BC + 2017 AD - 1 year (to account for the AD/BC crossover) = 5993 AM .

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  41. I'm still working through comments, you guys, and I thank you for your valuable discussion.

    A commenter named Steven shared this with me and I gently encourage all to watch. I realize it isn't always comfortable to have long-held views questioned, and it is vitally important to be discerning. So please pray & consider watching this teaching that I just discovered today by Pastor John Abent: 24 Elders are Not the Church: Pre-trib Refined

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  42. I think we are going through Tribulation right now or its a very good clone!

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  43. Great article!! I too have been under the belief that the seals have already been opened and that we are awaiting the opening of the 6th seal. It doesn’t make sense to me that we have been living in tribulation as stated in the seals since Christ’s resurrection, yet they haven’t been opened yet? Jesus already spoke about them increasing, which they definitely have. So what would be the point in opening them at the end only to do that which is and has already been happening on earth for the last 2000 years?

    Anyhow, I have never been able to rectify that in my mind. I guess it seems redundant, and I don’t believe the Lord is redundant. I too am never dogmatic about it, because quite frankly we just don’t fully understand end times. It unfolds as time goes on, but no one has perfect knowledge of it and we must stay humble and pray for revelation.

    Thank you for stating what is in your heart knowing that you may receive a lot of backlash. It is good for us all to be shaken from the dogma we have been taught (maybe wrongfully) for many years. I always tell the Lord, truth is all I want, even if it means that what I have always believed to be true is shaken to its core. I ask Him to keep my heart open to His truth, plan, and guidance. I have even laid down the pre trib rapture at His feet, especially after 9/23 and the sign. I ask Him if it is not the truth to please tell me, even though it would not be what I want to hear, at all!! His truth is always far more important then my dogma’s. Ultimately I put my trust in Him and His ways!!

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  44. There is SO MUCH misinterpreted of scripture in this article concerning the placements, the whats, whys, and time.
    But the only thing I will write is concerning this: I noticed in the comments that there is confusion on the 24 Elders.
    "Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.
    Revelation 4:4

    the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
    Revelation 4:10

    Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
    And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
    And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”
    Revelation 5:8-10
    Who is our King and Priest? Who has made us kings and priest?

    Do you not see? Do you not hear? Can you not recognize yourself? Can you not recognize Us?

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  45. You state: "I do not believe that Seal 1 is the antichrist. While it could be a spirit of deception, there is perhaps another conclusion."

    First seal. Rev 6. “And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.”

    Then you do a word study on Saints being conquerors and over-comers. Rom 8:35 and Rev 12:11

    Then you compare parallel texts Matt 24 and Rev 6:
    1st seal: The rider on the white horse. Conquering and to conquer. Rev. 6:1-2
    Jesus: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.” Matt. 24:4-5

    In context, the first seal rider is someone who is posing as Christ or the anti-Christ. Matthew supports the Anti-Christ theory. We are over-comers, but not in this context.

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  46. Interesting article, and I have considered this myself many times and have studied this view in-depth. However, in my opinion, it is incorrect. The resurrection /rapture may be associated with the 6th Seal, but that is only because Seals 1-6 are opened immediately with/after the resurrection/rapture.

    As most things in the Bible occur in 3's; you will discover that there remain three end-time wars: Psalm 83, Gog of Magog, and Armageddon. Doing an in-depth study and matching Scripture with Scripture I have found that Psalm 83 is associated with the first 5 Seals, Gog/Magog the 5th and possibly 6th Trumpets, and Armageddon the 6th Bowl/Vial.

    There are many other reasons for viewing the Seals as NOT having been opened yet such as: Rev. 4:1, a perfect picture of the rapture, has not yet occurred; the 24 Elders (which I believe includes 12 NT saints) have not all been resurrected; the general assembly of the church has not occurred (Rev. 5). Thus, everything from Revelation 4:1 is yet future.

    If we view Seal 6 as the resurrection/rapture, most point to the multitude of Rev. 7 as the resurrected/raptured church in heaven. This cannot be because this group is specifically said to have come out of great tribulation (i.e. the aftermath of the rapture up to that point). Not all saints (dead or alive) will have come out of "great tribulation." My grandmother was not rich, but she lived a good, long life and died a believer. She did not experience great tribulation. Thus, she is not part of the Rev. 7 multitude. These are given long white robes (Greek: stole), the same type as given the martyrs in Seal 5 (same exact word). However, the white "raiment" (Greek: himation) that the elders are wearing is promised to the overcomers in Rev. 2-3.

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