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Who Is The Male Child Of Revelation 12?



Who is the male child of Revelation 12?  This question becomes increasingly pertinent as we near the day on which the Revelation 12 Sign may be fulfilled.  Historically the predominant assumption was that the male child of Revelation 12:5 was Christ, but this interpretation appears to have some significant faults.  In retrospect it looks like the popular view regarding the male child was held for two reasons: first, because Augustinian allegorism has held sway over the Church since the 5th century and second, because significant scholarly studies on Revelation 12 have been almost entirely avoided until relatively recently.

When we dissect the narrative in Revelation 12 we discover that the identity of the male child must meet eight criteria in keeping with a literal hermeneutic:


1. A singular male child.  Jesus was clearly a singular male child, but what people frequently fail to notice is that the Church is at least three times figuratively called a singular man, as well (Ephesians 2:15, 4:13, Galatians 3:29).  Furthermore, the Church is compared to Christ's mystical, corporate "body" more often than it is compared to other metaphors like a "bride" or "temple".  See here.

2. The child is called teknon. The raptured child in Revelation 12:5 is called both teknon (informal child) and huios (son of honor), which is strange considering that Jesus is exclusively called huios in the Scriptures, except on a single occasion by his mother (Luke 2:48).  In addition, the Apostle John uses teknon to refer to the Church as the children of God in his first epistle (1 John 3:1-2, 10, 5:2), and uses huios exclusively to refer to Christ in his gospel and first epistle (John 1:49, 59, 3:13, 16, 5:19, 14:13, 1 John 3:8, 4:15, 5:5, 5:20).  To assume John is suddenly changing course in Revelation 12 would be contrary to all evidence.

3. The child is born before the woman goes into labor.  Revelation 12:5 is connected directly to Isaiah 66:7, which says this corporate baby is born before Israel goes into labor.  In other words, a pre-tribulational delivery.  You can read more about this here.  The Church has debated whether or not Mary had labor pains since earliest times, but Scripture seems to be silent on the subject.  Luke 2:6 does indicate that the time for the baby to be born had come.  This might indicate contractions and birth pains.  In any case, with nothing definitely saying she did not have labor pains, the preponderance of evidence would seem to indicate Mary was not free from the same curse that has been on all women since Genesis 3:16.

4. The prophecy in Revelation 12 is yet future.  Revelation 1:1 clearly lays out the purpose of the book, which is to tell the saints what will happen in the future.  Revelation 4:1 drives this point home even further, indicating that everything from Revelation 4:1-on is yet to occur.

5. The child will rule with a rod of iron.  Revelation 12:5 says that the male child "will rule all the nations with a rod of iron."  It is obvious enough that Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Psalm 2:7-9, Revelation 19:15),  but Revelation 2:26-27 informs us that the Church is afforded this honor, as well.

6. The child is conceived in and born out of Israel.  Jesus was conceived in Nazareth and born in Bethlehem.  Both are towns in Israel.  The Church was conceived (or some might say "born") in Jerusalem on Pentecost around AD 33.  Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.  The corporate birth of the Church occurs from "heavenly Jerusalem" (Galatians 4:26-27).

7.  The child is in imminent danger from satan's world system.  This criterion presents a significant challenge to those who believe Revelation 12 is speaking about Christ.  Christ was in no danger from satan before His ascension and neither was He in danger before His death (Matthew 26:53, John 2:19, 5:26, 10:18, Philippians 2:8).

8. The child is raptured to God's throne. The male child is raptured in Revelation 12:5.  The Greek word used is harpazo, which means "caught up" or "snatched up" and it is the word used for the rapture of the Church in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.  Every single mention of Jesus' ascension is described using the words epairo or anabaino, both of which indicate a gradual rising (like climbing a mountain), not a quick and violent snatching away (harpazo).  Revelation 12:5 is clearly connected to the rapture event.


Sometimes it helps to lay it out in a grid just to see the evidence all at once:



Here are some additional resources if you are interested in studying this subject further:




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64 comments :

  1. You covered this in point 7, but in Rev 12, the CHILD is raptured immediately after birth. Jesus was a grown man when he ascended...the timing of the rapture/ascension is different. Rev 12 it happens right at the birth, while Jesus ascended at the end of his life (albeit, a life that was cut short). Just thinking out loud.

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  2. Thank you for this article.

    Your research and hard work really blesses us all.

    Has anyone ever had a dream/expereince of being raptured? Would like to hear about it.

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    1. For the past decade or so, I have leaned more towards the "pre-wrath rapture" doctrine, so having a pre-tribulation rapture dream this past March 2017 really took me by surprise.

      I was riding a bicycle along an empty highway in Alaska (where I lived) on a beautiful day. There were no people around at all. I looked up at the bright blue sky with big puffy white clouds and noticed this brilliant gold stream of light speeding across the firmament from cloud to cloud and I knew, just like that, that the rapture was happening. I cried to the Lord, "Please, Father, don't leave me behind!" and I began to rise up towards the heavens. Then I woke up.

      What's interesting is my husband was in California at the time interviewing for a new job, and when we spoke on the phone that day, he said, "I had the craziest dream last night. I was driving in the car with Dan (Christian friend), and I looked up to the heavens and saw the sun and the moon coming towards the earth in a great blaze of fire; I lost control of my car and we started flipping and flipping over and over and I was bracing for a horrible impact when all of a sudden we landed perfectly in a parking space with no damage whatsoever."

      So my husband and I both had very spiritual dreams on the same night in different states, and neither of us are given particularly to dreams.

      It was a month later that I discovered Scottie Clarke's YouTube channel, and unsealed.org, and got caught up to speed on the Rev 12 sign. (And what unspeakable blessings both are, thank you!!!)

      When I first accepted Yeshua as my Savior back in 2001, shortly after I had the only other rapture dream I've ever had. I and many others were suddenly pulled up from the ground with such an incredible force and the very next moment we were all silently floating in fetal positions, almost like babies in the womb, above the face of the earth, and all was absolutely silent and calm.

      Again, I'm not one given to dreams or visions or words from the Lord, but I've had 2 rapture dreams, one back in 2001 or 2002, and one this past March.

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    2. I did not grow up learning about the rapture. Started to become curious about it when I studied the book of Revelation back in January. But the Holy Spirit took me on a journey of first repentance and then rapture!! IT MUST GO IN THAT ORDER! Anyway when God and the Holy Spirit knew I was ready, after learning about the Great Sign, I was given a dream about the rapture. I was standing outside, it was almost dark, I was looking up and felt a very strong pull that was lifting me up into the sky. I was moving fast, so fast that I started to get nervous and woke myself up. It was amazing, so real, and so full of love that I knew He gave it to me to validate everything I was learning. THANK YOU LORD JESUS and I never looked back. The night after my rapture dream I kept hearing Eph 6:11 while I was sleeping and then right when I woke up. I knew then I had to protect myself and my loved ones from the attack of the enemy because he is not happy with what is going on. It led me to research and put together a prayer for the Armor of God. A few weeks later I was looking at different translations and saw Eph 6:18 "praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being WATCHFUL TO THIS END with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints" This message was not just about protection but also more validation about WATCHING!! THANK YOU LORD JESUS! I have also had 2 dreams hearing Rev 2:22. It seems that many people are having dreams about the rapture. We are living in some incredible times!

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    3. Anon, I had a rapture dream back in April 2016. I was standing in my room, talking to one of my children when a huge earthquake struck. We were being thrown violently, not from one side of the room to the other but more like our bodies being tossed, like violent calisthenic movements. I "knew" (as you often have a "knowing" in dreams) that the earthquake was worldwide.
      While this was happening we both turned into purple sploshes of light and then - whoosh - we disappeared upwards at lightning speed.
      I woke up and thought, "Wow, I've had a rapture dream (my only one) and it's going to happen during an earthquake."
      I am still pre-trib in my rapture views but am not so sure of the Rev 4:1 timeline of it as I once was. Several months after my dream I came across a teaching by John Abent (he has a youtube channel called JNBAP) that answered so many of my questions.
      This site has been an amazing blessing, too. Thank you, admin.

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  3. Matthew 24:
    29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

    “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
    the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

    30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other this it the RAPTURE.

    Deuteronomy 30 - Rapture in the Old Testament

    Restoration of ISRAEL the Great Tribulation

    30 “When all these things happen to you—both the blessings and the curses that I’ve presented to you—and you take them seriously in all the nations where the Lord your God will deport you, 2 and when you—you and your descendants, that is—will have returned to him and obeyed all the commands that I’m giving you today with all your heart and soul, 3 then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and will show compassion to you. He will gather you from among the nations where he had scattered you. 4 Even if the Lord had banished you to the ends of the heavens, the Lord your God will gather you from there 5 and he’ll bring you to the land that your ancestors inherited. You’ll possess it, you’ll prosper, and you’ll greatly multiply more than your ancestors did. 6 Then the Lord your God will circumcise both your hearts and those of your descendants so that you can love him with your heart and with your soul and therefore live. 7 Then the Lord your God will inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate and persecute you.”

    Prosperity in Obedience

    8 “So now, return and obey the Lord your God and observe all his commands that I’m giving you today, 9 and the Lord your God will prosper you abundantly in all that you do, along with your children,[h] your livestock, and the produce of your fields, because the Lord your God will again be delighted with you for good, just as he was delighted with your ancestors, 10 if you obey him[i] and keep his commands and statutes that are written in this Book of the Law, and if you return to him[j] with all your heart and soul. 11 Indeed, these commands that I’m giving you today are neither confusing nor unattainable for you. 12 They aren’t in the heavens, so you have to ask, ‘Who’ll go up to the heavens for us and get it for us so we can hear it and act on it?’ 13 And they aren’t beyond the seas either, so you have to ask, ‘Who’ll cross the sea and get it for us so we can hear it and act on it?’ 14 No, the word is very near you—it’s within your mouth and heart for you to attain.”

    Destruction in Disobedience

    15 “Look! Today I have set before you life and what is good, along with death and what is evil. 16 That’s why I’m commanding you today to love the Lord your God by walking in his ways and by observing his commands, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live long, increase, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in the land that you are about to enter to possess. 17 But if you turn your heart away, and do not obey, but instead if you stray away to worship and serve other gods, 18 I’m declaring to you today that you will surely be destroyed. You won’t live long[k] in the land that you are crossing the Jordan River to enter and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth to testify against you today! I’ve set life and death before you today: both blessings and curses. Choose life, that it may be well with you—you and your children. 20 Love the Lord your God, obey his voice, and cling to him, because he is your life—even your long life—so that you may live in the land that the Lord promised to give Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

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  4. Jeremiah 31:
    The New Covenant is ONLY with 12 Tribes of Israel

    31 “Look, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I’ll make a new covenant with the house of ISRAEL and the house of JUDAH. 32 It won’t be like the covenant I made with their ancestors on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. They broke my covenant, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “Rather, this is the covenant that I’ll make with the house of ISRAEL (12 TRIBES) after those days,” declares the Lord. “I’ll put my Law[a] within them and will write it on their hearts. I’ll be their God and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a person teach his neighbor or his relative: ‘Know the Lord.’ Instead, they’ll all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord. “Indeed, I’ll forgive their iniquity, and I’ll remember their sin no more.”
    35
    This is what the Lord says,
    who gives the sun for light by day,
    the laws that govern the moon and stars for light by night,
    and who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar.
    The Lord of the Heavenly Armies is his name:
    36
    “If these laws cease to function in my presence,”
    declares the Lord,
    “then the descendants of Israel will cease to be
    a nation in my presence for all time!”
    37
    This is what the Lord says:
    “If the heavens could be measured above,
    or the foundations of the earth be searched out below,
    then I also would reject all the descendants of Israel
    because of everything they have done,”
    declares the Lord.
    38 “Look, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when the city of the Lord will be rebuilt[b] from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 A measuring line will go straight out from there to the hill of Gareb, and then it will turn to Goah. 40 The whole valley of dead bodies and ashes and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east will be holy to the Lord. It won’t be uprooted or overthrown again, forever.”

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    1. Please read Hebrews 8 and 10... it quotes Jeremiah 31 TWICE!!
      Jeremiah 31 is about a "forgiven" people... Only Christ's shed blood can do that!
      The New Covenant is Christ's blood atonement for our sins, see Luke 22:19-20.

      Hebrews 10
      11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever (((((those who are being sanctified ))))).
      15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to {{{{ US }}}}; for after He had said before,
      ...
      JEREMIAH 31 BEING QUOTED HERE ---->[[[[[
      Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
      ]]]]] <---- JEREMIAH 31 BEING QUOTED HERE

      We see here that Hebrews 10:16-17, the writer [[[[[ RE-QUOTES Jeremiah 31:31-34]]]]]

      So who are ((((("those who are being sanctified" ))))) ?
      Lets find out shall we:

      Hebrews 2:11
      For both HE WHO SANCTIFIES and ((((( those who are being sanctified ))))) ARE ALL OF ONE, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren

      Yep... HE who sanctifies = (those who are being sanctified) = ALL OF ONE...!!!
      That's the Body of Christ...!
      Both Jew and Gentile believers!

      More Proof???
      OK, here you go:

      Hebrews 13:3
      Remember the prisoners as if chained with them—those who are mistreated—since ((((YOU yourselves ARE IN THE BODY also)))).

      This means the audience of the epistle of Hebrews and Jerimaiah 31 is the Body of Christ (the Church).

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    2. Matthew 2

      6 “‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
      are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
      for out of you will come a ruler
      who will shepherd my people Israel.’[b]”
      Matthew 15:

      22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

      23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

      24 He answered, “I WAS NOT SENT ONLY TO THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL.”

      25 The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

      26 He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

      Luke 1:
      29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

      28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:

      29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
      you may now dismiss[d] your servant in peace.
      30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
      31 which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
      32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
      and the glory of your people Israel.”

      John 10:
      7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

      11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

      14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other (10 Lost Tribes of Israel after the Assyrians took them away) sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice (Torah), and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

      John 11:
      49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! 50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”

      51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, 52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God (10 Lost Tribes of Israel after the Assyrians took them away), to bring them together and make them one. 53 So from that day on they plotted to take his life.

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    3. Ezekiel 37:
      15 The word of the Lord came to me: 16 “Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, ‘Belonging to the House of Judah and the Israelites associated with him.’ Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, ‘Belonging to house of Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associated with him.’ 17 Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.

      18 “When your people ask you, ‘Won’t you tell us what you mean by this?’ 19 say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph which is in Ephraim’s hand and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah’s stick. I will make them into a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand.’ 20 Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on 21 and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding,[b] and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

      24 “‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’”

      Does it sounds like Ephesians 2:
      11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

      14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

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    4. Yip, and if they had accepted his message, that would have been it, but because they rejected his message, the branches were broken off and the gentile branches were grafted onto the vine. Praise God he knew in advance that Christ would be rejected, as we have become part of his body. Read Romans 9-11, written. Y the very apostle Christ sent to the gentiles.

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    5. Hello Anonymous. I appreciate your thoughts and study, and deeply value other perspectives. ;-) With that, I have to disagree. First, one point is that we - all believers have been grafted in with Jews. Second, there are some passages which talk about a covenant with Jews/ Israel, the rapture is for the bride of Christ - all believers - Jew, Greek, Gentile, - from all tribes and nations. Second, I think many (not saying you) conflate/ confuse different passages about trumpets [specifically I Thes 4:15-17] rapture passage - trumpet of God/ Last Trumpet with totally separate passage about seven trumpets and seven angels in Revelation. Those are seven angels blowing seven trumpets, and its judgement. In the same way, most Christians conflate/confuse the rapture [harpazo] 'snatched up', caught up quickly by force with the second coming - when he descends onto the mount of Olives. ;-) Interesting that the most frequent rapture passage, I Thes 4 and Revelation 12 both use "harpazo" -rapturo. ;-)

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    6. Dear Gary, Red Ranger - Loren O. I love the site, and appreciate all the time, work and study you put into the articles. I'm so blessed by your work and ministry. What stands out about this article in particular is the attitude of honestly looking at both sides - other possibilities. I'm not a hater and not a nay-sayer. I am a student of the Biblical feasts and clearly see that this year's Fall events are too many and too precise to be a random coincidence. My concern is that we need to honestly consider what if it's not this year? We only need to miss one tiny detail (one small interpretation of a scripture) to miss the whole thing. One small detail on a ticket can mean missing a wedding or funeral, or missing one connection can affect an entire vacation. Using numbers of strongs is interesting, but it's poor hermeneutics and we can use this method to 'proove' any message. The same with adding together different series of numbers which have meaning. I'm not saying you, Gary, my dear brother, but multiple people who comment and on You-tube. 33+33+33 Life of Christ/number of trinity, and make some connection of that number to 99 years since last eclipse, or 5777, and then take the 3 7s. It's one of the biggest things that discredits watchmen. I really value and look for your feedback. My concern is that other times, when people have made connections, Jonathan Cohn and Stone etc, and it didn't happen, there is no humility. This was particularly evident in the article about Sept sign being irrefutable. Couldn't be debunked. We all see through a glass dimly, - we know in part and we prophesy in part. I'm praying and watching that this Yom Teruah will be the day. There are certainly lots of indisputable facts that line up in the three days of Sept 21 - 29 Rosh Hoshanah, Shabbat Shuva, Sept alignment, and Yom Kippur. Maranatha. Loren O.

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    7. Red Ranger, I think what Gary was trying to say with the sign being "irrefutable" is that if we take the Bible literally this must be the sign. There's nothing else possible within a timespan of about 7000 years. Now what happens when the sign appears on Sept 23 and the timing of any activity can be debated for sure. But the fact that the sign is the best possible match for the text described in Rev 12:1-2 is irrefutable. Make sense? Michael

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    8. Ezekiel 34:
      12 As a shepherd seek out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

      13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

      14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

      Isaiah 43:
      5 Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.
      6 I will say to the north, `Give them up!’ and to the south, `Do not hold them back.’ Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth-

      In Isaiah 43:5-6, the prophet said that the people of Israel would return to their homeland from the east, the west, the north and the south. Isaiah lived 2700 years ago. Beginning at that time, a succession of empires conquered the land of Israel and forced many into exile. This led to a worldwide scattering of Jews. But, during the past century, millions have returned to Israel.–

      Jeremiah 23:
      “I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number. I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the Lord. “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The Lord Our Righteousness.

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    9. It is obvious that the earth will be so destroyed after the Great Tribulation that there will be no transportation left behind and the ONLY way YASHUAH can take the TRUE believers to Israel is by way of RAPTURE/CAUGHT UP and then we will be with him for ever in HIS KINGDOM on Earth from Jerusalem, but this will ONLY be after the Great Tribulation (1260 days) not before that.

      Matthew 24
      29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

      30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

      31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

      Daniel 12:
      1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (Great Tribulation), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

      2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

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    10. Anonymous, the pre-trib view doesn't ignore those Scriptures (including Matt. 24:29-31). It isn't an either/or situation but both/and. Interpreting Scripture is "line upon line" not "this and not that". Important.

      Pre-trib rapture in the Bible

      The pre-trib doctrine accounts for post-trib resurrection and rapture Scriptures because there WILL BE a post-trib resurrection according to Rev. 20:4-5.

      However, the post-trib doctrine can't easily account for more clearly pre-trib Scriptures (John 14:2-3, Isaiah 26:17-21, 1 Thess. 1:10, 5:3-4, Rev. 3:10, 2 Thess. 2:7-8, Isaiah 66:7, Rev. 12:5, Luke 21:36, etc).

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    11. 1 Thessalonians 4:
      13 But we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve like other people who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so through Jesus God will bring those who have died with him. 15 For we declare to you what the Lord has told us to say: We who are alive and REMAIN UNTIL the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have died. 16 With a shout of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of God’s trumpet, the Lord himself will come down from heaven, and the dead who belong to the Messiah will rise first. 17 Then WE who are ALIVE AND REMAIN WILL BE CAUGHT UP in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So then, encourage one another with these words.


      2 Thessalonians 2
      Now we ask you, brothers, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah,and our gathering together to him (Rapture), 2 not to be so quickly upset or alarmed when someone claims that we said, either by some spirit, conversation, or letter that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3 Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, for Lord Jesus, the Messiah will not come unless the rebellion takes place first and the man of sin, who is destined for destruction, is revealed. 4 He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god and object of worship. As a result, he seats himself in the sanctuary of God and himself declares that he is God.

      5 Don’t you remember that I repeatedly told you about these things when I was still with you? 6 You know what it is that is now holding him back, so that he will be revealed when his time comes. 7 For the secret of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until Michael (Daniel 12) now holding it back gets out of the way. 8 Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will destroy with the breath of his mouth, rendering him powerless by the manifestation of his coming.

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    12. The Creator of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture:
      John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[1] and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[2]

      He produced translations of the Bible in German "Elberfelder Bibel", French "Pau" Bible, Dutch New Testament, and English (finished posthumously) based on the Hebrew and Greek texts called The Holy Scriptures: A New Translation from the Original Languages by J. N. Darby. It has furthermore been translated into other languages in whole or part.

      It is believed that John Nelson Darby left the Church of Ireland around 1831.[4] He participated in the 1831–33 Powerscourt Conference, an annual meeting of Bible students organized by his friend,[5] the wealthy widow Lady Powerscourt (Theodosia Wingfield Powerscourt). At the conference Darby publicly described his ecclesiological and eschatological views, including the pretribulation rapture.[6] For about 40 years William Kelly (1821–1906) was his chief interpreter and continued to be a staunch supporter until his own death. Kelly in his work John Nelson Darby as I knew him stated that "a saint more true to Christ's name and word I never knew or heard of".Darby has been credited with originating the pre-tribulational rapture theory wherein Christ will suddenly remove His bride, the Church, from this world to its heavenly destiny before the judgments of the tribulation. Thus the prophetic program resumes with Israel's earthly destiny. Dispensationalist beliefs about the fate of the Jews and the re-establishment of the Kingdom of Israel put dispensationalists at the forefront of Christian Zionism, because “God is able to graft them in again,”[18] and they believe that in His grace he will do so according to their understanding of Old Testament prophecy. They believe that, while the ways of God may change, His purposes to bless Israel will never be forgotten, just as He has shown unmerited favour to the Church, He will do so to a remnant of Israel to fulfill all the promises made to the genetic seed of Abraham. In 1829 he predicted the rebirth of a nation Israel over 100 years before it happened, just by reading the Bible (pgs. 141-160. Prophetic No. 1 Vol. 2. J. N. Darby. Stow Hill Bible & Tract Depot. Kingston-On-Thames 1829)

      Source:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby

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    13. The Creator of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture: John Nelson Darby

      FALSE

      Do some "real research" and wikipedia is not research....

      Pre-Trib has been taught since the early Church Fathers

      Here is a good article to research www.unsealed.org/2015/04/extra-biblical-evidence-for-pre-trib.html

      Here is another bible.org/article/theology-adrift-early-church-fathers-and-their-views-eschatology

      Or if you wish to go to the source try:

      177 AD – Irenaeus Against Heresies (Book I, Chapter 10)
      Against Heresies (Book III, Chapter 11)
      Against Heresies (Book V, Chapter 32)

      Clement of Alexandria (192 AD) in his 'Stromata (5.3)

      Then, after reading these papers - you will contact wikipedia and let them know how wrong they are.........



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    14. Yea, I would even argue that Enoch, 7th from Adam, was the first to document the Pre-Trib rapture view in the Book of Enoch. Long before the early Church Fathers. Being that a partial copy of Enoch was found with the dead sea scrolls; which would make it at least 100-200 years before Christ was born.

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    15. Trey Smith does an AWESOME reading from the Book of Enoch talking about pre-trib Rapture:
      https://youtu.be/FX3LacqYR58?t=19m15s

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    16. Thanks for your words KJS

      Video Title:
      Jesuits Created The Secret Rapture & 7 Year Tribulation, & Both Are False Doctrines And Unbiblical
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3hXKNTMuEY


      Video Title:
      End Of The Age The Truth About the Rapture
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfi7CCKVQJ4

      Video:
      End of Days Series - Testing the Pre-Trib Rapture
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXO2MiWYUis

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    17. Your being funny right.....
      Your proof for Darby failed -- so now it is the Jesuits that created it.

      or some other youtube video ..... you suddenly find .....

      Simply go read the books I have already outlined -- and do not worry they have translations if your cannot read Greek!

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    18. KJS,
      let your audience watch the videos and let them decide if your theory/teaching is correct or not, just remember one thing, i am looking for the TRUTH, I am not saying i have it.

      BTW: My name is below, and thank you for your time, believe me you have great information in this website.

      i would like to hear from the audience after they watch those videos.

      Thanks,
      Juan C. Vasquez
      vasquezjc7@hotmail.com

      Delete
  5. Daniel 7:
    The Vision of the Ancient of Days

    9 “I kept on watching until the Ancient of Days was seated. His clothes were white, like snow, and the hair on his head was like pure wool. His throne burned with flaming fire, and its wheels burned with fire. 10 A river of fire flowed out from before him. Thousands upon thousands were serving him, with millions upon millions waiting before him. The court sat in judgment, and record books were unsealed.

    11 “I continued watching because of the audacious words that the horn was speaking. I kept observing until the animal was killed and its body destroyed and given over to burning fire. 12 Now as to the other animals, their authority was removed, but they were granted a reprieve from execution for an appointed period of time.”

    The Vision of the Son of Man

    13 “I continued to observe the night vision—and look!—someone like the Son of Man was coming, accompanied by heavenly clouds. He approached the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. 14 To him dominion was bestowed, along with glory and a kingdom, so that all people, nations, and languages are to serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion—it will never pass away—and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”

    The Vision Interpreted

    15 “Now as for me, Daniel, I was emotionally troubled, and what I had seen in the visions kept alarming me. 16 So I approached one of those who was standing nearby and began to ask the meaning of all of this. He spoke to me and caused me to understand the interpretation of these things. 17 He said, ‘These four great animals are four kings who will rise to power from the earth. 18 But the saints of the Highest will receive the kingdom forever, inheriting it forever and ever.’

    19 “I wanted to learn the precise significance of the fourth animal that was different from all the others, extremely awe-inspiring, with iron teeth and bronze claws, and that had devoured and crushed things, trampling under its feet whatever remained. 20 Also, I wanted to learn the significance of the ten horns on its head and the other horn that had arisen, before which three of them had fallen—that is, the horn with eyes and a mouth that uttered magnificent things and which was greater in appearance than its fellows.

    21 “As I continued to watch, that same horn waged war against the saints, and was prevailing against them 22 until the Ancient of Days arrived to pass judgment in favor of the saints of the Highest One and the time came for the saints to take possession of the kingdom. 23 So he said:


    ‘The fourth animal will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, different from all the kingdoms. It will devour the entire earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 Now as to the ten horns, ten kings will rise to power from this kingdom, and another king will rise to power after them. He will be different from the previous kings, and will defeat three kings. 25 He’ll speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One. He’ll attempt to alter times and laws, and they’ll be given into his control for a time, times, and half a time. 26 Nevertheless, the court will convene, and his authority will be removed, annulled, and destroyed forever. 27 Then the kingdom, authority, and magnificence of all nations of the earth will be given to the people who are the saints of the Highest One. His kingdom will endure forever, and all authorities will serve him and obey him.’

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  7. Gary- I came across something while studying- I will leave it to the experts to disseminate if it truly means something.
    1. Hosea 2:21 states that the Lord will respond to the skies. What are the skies saying to Him? Isn't it possible that God is looking to the skies to "see" the signs He has placed there as well in order to act on His Word?
    2. It also says the skies will respond to the earth. What is the Earth saying? Is the sky possibly responding to the actions and end times?
    3. The Earth responds to the grain, new wine, and olive oil. Where is this mentioned? In Joel 2:18-20, during a time of repentance.

    Joel 2 also mentions that in a season of repentance the bridegroom comes out as does the bride. We know this is not a representation of Israel as they are the former (and future restored) Wife.
    This seems to indicate when reading these two passages together, that following a season of repentance (marked by the eclipse and 40 days until Sep. 23-possibly?) that God will then call an assembly. HE will respond to the skies (Hosea 2:21). The bridegroom and the bride come forth. Then He looks upon the scorned wife again and gives grain, new wine, and olive oil, a reference in both passages. What I think I see is that God is responding to the signs in the skies and because it is the appointed time according to the signs He Himself placed, God calls the bridegroom and bride (a picture of the rapture) and then focuses back on Israel as His Wife, where God blesses her with prosperity in the land He promised. Yes-No-Maybe?

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  8. I really enjoy and am grateful for all the hard work put in by you guys. I did wonder if Jesus could have been born before the labor because of his first coming? Not saying that it wasn't a type and shadow of His own body the church, but just a thought I had.

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    1. Interesting. If Christ was a type of the church re birth, then it indicates labour pains prior to birth, after which tremendous persecution comes (Herod). As Gary noted above, Mary knew when the time of delivery was near, so she would have felt the labour pains coming (start of tribulation), followed by birth, and then the slaughter of the other children in Israel. Perfect alignment with Rev 12, with the only difference being immediate snatching up of the child AFTER delivery in Rev 12

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  9. Truthseeker - The woman also has wheat and barley in her. hands which were both used to make bread during the days of the Hebrews. This is a child that is born of bread...The bread of life!

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  10. Truthseeker - Or should I say the "children" of the bread of life!

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  11. Gary, I love your commentary, and you provide a great deal of insight on many things, but I believe much of the above is a reach.

    Matt. 2:13 said Herod sought the child to destroy him. The Bible didn't stop at that point to let us no that Herod had no hope of destroying Christ, although we as believers know that is the case. To me, the sentiment in Rev. 12 parallels Matthew 2.

    Trying to apply the language of Isaiah 66 to Rev. 12 is another reach, at least to my reading. Rev. 12 says she was travailing in birth, pained to be delivered. I don't care how we try to read other scriptural references into it, that's not describing a laborless birth.

    I appreciate your commentary, and I'll be the first to apologize and thank you for your Revelation 12 work if we're in the air on September 23rd. But my own view from reading Rev. 12 is that the primary application is the birth of Christ. - Barry

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    1. Hi Barry,

      Was the baby Jesus raptured to Heaven? We both know that's not the case. That presents a major problem to that interpretation. A number of scholars have also noted the strange absence of any details of Jesus' death or resurrection.

      Regarding the rest, the exegetical principles I stand on are 1. Taking the Bible literally, and 2. not being assumptive. Each of the eight points above were based on a prima facie reading of Scripture rather than "reach" or assumption. That is key.

      Let's take the Herod hypothesis for example. Now we can both probably agree that Scripture is filled with layers, types, and shadows. Herod was certainly one of those. But the problem is, Scripture explicitly defines the dragon as Satan, NOT Herod (Rev. 12:9; see also Daniel 7:1-7 and Rev. 13:1 for the connection to a world system). Herod might have been a type of the dragon, but the dragon itself he was not. The same can be said of Mary. She was a *type* of the woman, but there is scholarly consensus that she is not the primary focus of Revelation 12.

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    2. hmmm, Barry was reflecting my thoughts (some exceptions). I believe Rev12 is a future event, however I agree on the Herod comments. We know that, for example, Satan indwelt Judas who was a tool in Satans plan. We dont have info in the bible that Satan indwelt Herod, but we do know he was carrying out Satans plans for attempting to destroy Jesus as a child, and as an adult (through the Pharisees etc). We also know in the end, Satan will himself indwell the AntiChrist. You could then say, "oh thats not applying a literal translation", but we dont apply a literal translation when it states that a third of the stars were swept out of heaven. A third is a lot! So Barry is indeed correct in his questioning, while I agree with you that the child cannot represent Christ due to the child being snatched up, vs adult ascending

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    3. Hi Zeal Life, you raise some good points. Thanks for chiming in.

      I go back to types and shadows here. Very true that Judas was indwelt by satan. Perhaps Herod was, too. This appears to be a type of a future indwelling pictured in Revelation 13:2, 4 when the dragon (satan) gives his authority to the beast (ac). But Herod, Judas, and the Beast are not the dragon, if that makes sense. Revelation 12 is exclusively about the dragon and his accompanying forces.

      I'm still wrestling with the "stars" in Rev 12:3-4. I think it is a direct parallel to Rev 12:9, thus the stars are angels a la Rev 1:20.

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  12. I was a bit surprised to see this from Joel Joseph at The Prophetic Scroll. I really, really respect his discernments. He makes the point that for the Rev 12 sign to point to the Rapture of the church, "everything hinges" on the identity of the child (I agree), then states that it is Jesus and NOT the church.

    His evidence? "Child" is capitalized in 12:5. But it's not in most versions. It IS in the version he uses (NKJV) but not in KJV or most others.

    There are some other claims he makes that don't, imo, hold water. This is surprising to me as he is a VERY astute person. Also, claims friendship with Scotty Clarke and agreement on all else with him.

    It's an interesting read. Any comments on it? Scroll down to Edition 378, August 15.

    http://www.thepropheticscroll.org/home/50-editions/general/521-edition-378.html

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  13. Great article Gary! Berean-like study indeed. A heart after the truth, regardless of the implications, will find it in faith, and it's clear that the Man-Child/child is a picture of Christ he first fruits and the church body being raptured. My concern is this- I have yet to be able to reconcile the fact that the woman in the Rev 12 sign is already in travail prior to birth; the birth of a nation in a day/moment of Isaiah occurs prior to travail. I have yet to hear or gain understanding I've been seeking regarding this conflict of scripture. Please l, if you could, prepare a study that clearly rectifies the problem. Having believed in a pre-trib rapture since I was saved years ago, Im beginning to worry we might be deceiving ourselves about the pre trib when this conflict might be pointing to a pre great-trib rapture.

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    1. Thank you for your encouraging words.

      Regarding the timing of labor, here's my thoughts in a very simplified way:

      Rev. 12:1-2 is actual astronomy. A sign in the sky. Rev. 12:3-on is pure narrative. Rev 12 can't be purely chronological because Rev 12:7 seems to start over again at verse 3 (and verses 6 and 14 are directly parallel). This is part of the chiastic structure of Revelation.

      So... my conclusion is that it is purely assumption to suggest Rev. 12:5 takes place after Rev. 12:1-2. The text doesn't require that chronology. Please note that many translation say in v. 3 "and then" or "then", but that is purely added in. The Greek conjunction καὶ does not necessarily imply sequential order.

      It is v. 5 that is connected directly to Isaiah 66:7, not necessarily verses 1-2. Hope that makes sense.

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    2. Sorry Garry, will carry on my thoughts here, as they align further with Barrys but are better placed being noted here.

      You note that Rev 1-2 is actual astronomy. A sign in the sky. So my question is "where is the 'crying out in pain' in the Sept 23 sign"? There is none, so to explicitly state that vs 1-2 are astronomy is only partly correct. THe reality is that a heavenly sign reflects an earthly occurence.

      Secondly, while the 'then' may not be present in the original greek, you have to look for other indications in scripture as to the sequence of events or relationship of events. In rev 12, the key verses are "as she was about to give birth" in vs 2, and then "was about to give birth" in vs 4 to look at the relationship of events.

      Finally - regardless of the text, vs 2 is adamant that the woman cried out in pain AS she was ABOUT TO give birth (sorry capitals are not me shouting, but areas of focus lol). To try to use Isaiah 66 to contradict vs 4 is poor exegesis in my opinion. The old testament clarifies the new, it doesnt contradict.

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    3. You raise more good points. It's important that neither of us (myself included) try to place God in a box. He confounds us all, but I still believe the general principles of literal interpretation and avoiding assumptions will stand the test of time. In other words, trusting what the Scriptures plainly say. That doesn't mean we always have a perfect understanding or clear picture, but we'll get there a lot faster by avoiding allegorisms and assumption.

      Regarding Rev 12:1-2, I'm not suggesting it is only astronomy. Clearly it is part of the narrative. I was suggesting that v. 3-on may be *pure* or *only* narrative, if that makes sense, whereas verses 1-2 are astronomy, as well as narrative. I probably didn't state that clearly.

      Elsewhere I mentioned my current thinking is that the sign may occur after the delivery in 12:5, which would explain Is. 66:7 "before she goes into labor". Notice in Is. 26:17-21, which parallels Is. 66 and Rev. 12, that the woman gives birth to wind, but it is God who causes a miraculous "birth from the earth". It may be that the dragon is waiting to devour a child that doesn't show because the child is already gone.

      I would encourage you to read our other articles under "The Sign" as there is a lot of territory we've covered here, including in-depth Hebrew/LXX/Greek studies that help put the pieces together, but in the end I doubt any of us have it all figured out.

      What I do believe is that on 9/23 or 9/24 the sign John saw in Rev. 12:1-2 will be fulfilled.

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    4. Well stated, Gary. The sign is real - the meaning, timing, and in-depth understanding is yet to be discovered.

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  14. Great Article, Gary!!

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  15. For the Rev 12 sign to be indicative of the Rapture, the male child has to be the Church, correct? Many commentaries suggest it is Christ. In fact, I can hardly find anything that states otherwise. There is something that comes to mind, though. I'm finding around 20 or more scriptures declaring that Christ and the Church are one, with him as the head. Can it be both Christ and the Church then? Maybe a duel prophecy?

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    1. I think you're right that the the mystical union of Christ and His Church is in view in Revelation 12. So I have no problem with saying Christ AND the Church, but the interpretation that says "only Christ" has major problems in my view. There is actually a pretty good amount of scholarly support for the Church view: See here.

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  16. Scripture shows that the rapture does occur prior to the Tribulation. To better understand how the Church Bride will be caught up before the travail of the woman in Revelation 12, you will want to watch Alan Horvath’s two videos: The Most Comprehensive Rapture Update and Kar Giver's Bonus Rapture Update 2017. He and Kar Giver explain how Scripture prophesies of TWO CORPORATE BIRTHS!

    Knowing this, I speculate that the Revelation 12:1-2 wonder that is to occur on September 23 will signal the start of the Tribulation. IF, however, the catching away of the overcoming Church occurs a mere moment before ‘sudden destruction’, the Revelation 12 sign of the woman would serve as a sign of the rapture by default. I came to this conclusion when I noticed the context of 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5.

    For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. - 1 Thessalonians 5:3 KJV

    The overcoming Church will in essence (as Job put it) escape by the skin of our teeth! To see all the links I refer to go to https://lynmelvin.blogspot.com/2017/08/by-skin-of-our-teeth.html

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  17. Gary, are you familiar with Amir Tsarfati? I've been studying, following and anxiously waiting for the Rev 12 sign next month, and I also listen to and respect Amir as a Man of Christ and as a teacher of the Holy word of God. I'm excited at the thought of the rapture, and being with Jesus our King I heaven where we won't have to endure sin any longer, but Amir got me thinking when he said we shouldn't be looking for signs because it means we aren't satisfied with Christ and his grace now; that we're looking for something more than Christ in this lifetime. In your understanding of God's word and in your spirit, do you feel that so much time thinking about the sign and studying it, takes away from glorifying Him? Thank you.

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  18. Personally, I think the view that the "child" of Rev. 12 symbolizes Jesus AND the Church (Christ's Body) is the strongest view.

    But since there has been so much noise posted above about J.N. Darby, it might help to have some info which is better researched.

    A brief study:

    http://pre-trib.org/articles/view/john-nelson-darby-and-the-pre-trib-rapture

    A longer study:

    http://pre-trib.org/articles/view/john-nelson-darby-and-the-rapture

    An additional study:

    http://pre-trib.org/articles/view/j-n-darbys-early-years

    Yeah, it involves some reading. Sorry :)

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  19. I took a look at the first video that one of several "Anonymouses" posted at 3:41 PM today. The same video is posted all over the 'net, by people who apparently believe they've uncovered the Last Word in the pre-post debate. The lecturer, one "Pastor Doug", made so many significant errors in just the first few minutes that I lost count as the video went on. One of his statements was that the pre-trib view is "the most popular" but that the "other view" (post-trib) is the "traditional" view. First off, the pre-trib view is NOT the most popular in the Church at large, and hasn't been for at least 20 years (if it ever was at all). The MOST popular and--since Augustine--the "traditional" view is not post-trib, but amillennialism; that is, the NO-trib view. (The post-tib view is actually more recent than the pre-trib view!)

    At about the 2:00 mark in the video, Pastor Doug makes the astonishing statement that "the Bible doesn't teach about a rapture", and goes on to equate the word "rapture' with "violent rape"! Can you say "totally, pathetically uninformed"? Does this man have no Greek dictionary? No Strong's concordance?

    At first he does seem to be premillennial, but later it appears that he thinks that the Lord's coming to the earth is *after* the Millennium. That makes him post-millenial. Like ALL "posties" that I have examined closely, he is guilty of the most superficial and sloppy "eisegesis" where God's judgement, the Day of the Lord, and the Rapture are concerned.

    The supposed Jesuit Rapture conspiracy is mentioned at about the 3:00 mark. The story is that Francisco Ribera, a 16th century Jesuit, "invented the pre-trib Rapture" when he was commissioned by the RCC to counter the Reformation view of eschatology (which tended to view the RCC as the whore of Babylon). It isn't mentioned that the reformers held to AUGUSTINE'S eschatology, which the Catholic Church already taught and teaches still. The vast differences between Ribera's contrivance and pre-tribulationism aren't mentioned either, of course. The mere vague, *supposed* connection between a Jesuit and pre-trib eschatology is assumed and intended to "demolish" pre-tribulationism, but the connection is far from proven in this or any other video I've seen. (Another possibility--that the devil inspired a Jesuit to come up with a scenario to pre-emptively *discredit* the pre-trib rapture--is never mentioned, let alone considered. No surprise there.)

    So often I have come across post-trib naysayer articles and videos, each of which claims to "put the last nail in the coffin of the pre-trib rapture", only to be astonished at the sloppy non-scholarship and lack of comprehension displayed in them. In every case, they simply re-hash the same old tired, thoroughly refuted "proofs" that were demolished decades ago.

    What a waste of time that video is.

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  20. Keth Burwell - totally buy the repentance idea!! Right with you.

    Ephesians is a believers book centered upon being "In Christ". The woman is the only way we can identify with a birth and God knows how we think. He put a woman in the Heavens, but all her symbolism is about Israel(the 12 stars/ divine government)), Christ (the bread ingredients, wheat/barley), the sun(righteousness found in Christ), Jupiter/Zedek( kings and priests), and moon(pagan world is Christ's footstool). As Eve was taken out of the side of the first Adam, so the church(bride) is taken out of the last Adam(Christ). The woman represents The totality of that thought process and signals it's upcoming fruition . There will be a marriage on the wedding day of September and seven years later he will have another marriage to Jacob's Israel(disobedient) and then finish the cycle of the feasts. There will be two marriages as was of Leah and Rachel.

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  21. If September 24th comes and all of this hype leads to seemingly nothing, this will be the greatest number of coincidences concerning the end times I've ever seen. I respect the writers on this sight sticking their necks out in a sense.

    2017 is a milestone year concerning Israel. 120 since 1st Zionist Congress, 100 since Balfour Declaration, 70 since UN agreement, 50(a Jubilee) since the re-capturing of Jerusalem. What else? Rev 12. The UN slogan for 2017. Judah Ben Samuel. The number of moons equal to the tribulation period.

    I feel like I'm still missing a bit but that's just an example.

    I think it wise to remember the words of Jesus: "occupy till I come". We have a tendency to be upset when things don't go as we want them to. We need to be watching, but not consumed with whether or not the rapture will take place at a specific time. We don't want to be looking for signs so eagerly that we are not looking for Jesus. The Word says He is coming for those who are looking for Him!

    Gods Blessings

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  22. in Finis Dake's book Revelation Expounded he puts forth that he believes the man child is the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. saved immediately after the pre-trib rapture of the church they will be sealed and protected until mid-trib when the covenant with Israel is broken by the antichrist. at this time the 144,000 will be caught up to heaven and most of Israel will flee the persecution of the dragon(antichrist)into the wilderness for the final half of the tribulation.

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  23. I had a very vivid dream this morning that I was being raptured. I think I was in a room with a lot of people that were mocking Jesus and then all of the sudden He was there. And it was like, ok you want to mock me here we go. He winked his eye and the eye that was open changed to being all white and I felt myself soaring. I really thought it was happening for a minute!

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  24. I'm in Florida and my dream was a tornado occurred, only some homes made it, I woke to a new peaceful world immediately after, knowing all the events of the world had happened while I slept.

    ReplyDelete
  25. The man child definitely is NOT the BOC and has nothing to do with the Pre Tribulation Rapture. The BOC is not the child of Israel but the 144,000 Jew male virgins are and they will be raptured right before the middle of the Tribulation with Israel then running for cover. Revelation 14 even tells us what just happened with them as the 144,000 are seen in heaven with the lamb. The Church/BOC will definitely be taken before Daniel's 70th week but they are nowhere to be found in the book of Revelation as it is strictly about and written to the Jews. I know someone will say BUT WAIT! LOOK AT REVELATION 2 AND 3 MENTIONING THE CHURCH! the word "Church" was used in Acts 7:38 to describe Israel in the O.T so REVELATION 2 and 3 taken in context is talking about 7 Jewish assemblies that will be around during that time. We have to keep in mind that we have to rightly divide the word of Truth and understand that the books of Hebrews through Revelation are all Tribulation books

    ReplyDelete
  26. Deuteronomy 24
    When a man has taken a wife and married her, and it comes to pass that she finds no favour in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her; then let him write her a bill of divorce and give it in her hand and send her out of his house.

    2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.

    3 And if the latter husband hates her and writes her a bill of divorce and gives it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband who took her to be his wife dies,

    4 her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she is defiled, for that is abomination before the LORD; and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God gives thee for an inheritance.

    Matthew 19Jubilee
    3 ¶ Then the Pharisees came unto him, tempting him and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for any cause?

    4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he who made them at the beginning made them male and female?

    5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh.

    6 Therefore they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate

    7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a bill of divorce and to put her away?

    8 He said unto them, Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, suffered you to put away your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

    9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication and shall marry another, commits adultery, and whosoever marries her that is put away commits adultery.

    Romans 7:1-6

    Know you not, brethren (for I speak to those that know the law), that the law has dominion over a man only as long as he lives?

    2 For the woman who is subject to a husband is obligated to the law so long as the husband lives; but if the husband dies, she is free from the law of the husband.

    3 So then if, while her husband lives, she belongs to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law so that she is no adulteress if she belongs to another man.

    4 Likewise ye also, my brethren, are become dead to the law in the body of the Christ that ye should belong to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    5 For while we were in the flesh, the affections of the sins which were by the law worked in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

    6 But now we are free from the law of death in which we were held, that we might serve in newness of Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    How can the "CRURCH" replace ISRAEL ? can GOD breaks his own LAW ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. When did I ever say that the Church/BOC replaced or replaces Israel? I said that when the word "Church" is used in the KJV Bible, it doesn't always refer to the BOC and Acts 7:38 proves my point

      Delete
  27. Tishri 1 3983 BC GOD Formed Adam Day 1 and the begining of the 6000 Years Plan
    Tishri 1 2017 AD = September 23rd 2017 End of the 6000 Years and the Day of the Yahovah Begins:

    Jeremiah 30:
    3 The days are coming,’ declares the Yahovah, ‘when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity[a] and restore them to the land I gave their ancestors to possess,’ says the Yahovah.”

    4 These are the words the Yahovah spoke concerning Israel and Judah:

    5 “This is what the Yahovah says:
    Cries of fear are heard terror, not peace.

    6 Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale?

    7 How awful that day will be! No other will be like it.
    It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.

    August 21st "Eclipse" = Day 1 when Moses when to receive the Torah for the second time for 40 days.

    GOD is telling us that we have 30 more days before the END of the 6000 years, September 23rd + 10 days = Day of Attonment when Moses came down from the Mountain.

    I would like to read your Comments after September 23th 2017 when there is NO Raptur but for THOSE of US who are LEFT BEHID here is the picture to come:

    SCENARIO:
    Planet X, Nibiru or the Red Dragon will collpse with Jupiter on September 23rd desvataring planet Jupiter that will cause asteroids falling from Heaven around 2021-2022

    Planet X, Nibiru or the Red Dragon will passed Earth then Satan will be ejected to Earth to begin the Great Tribulation.

    September 23rd 2017 at sunset to September 9th 2024 = 2550 Days.

    Antichrist takes over the "world" on March 20th 2021 and the Seals are open.

    02/20/2021 To 03/20/2021:
    144,000 Sealed
    Matt 24: 15-22
    Daniel 11: 31-46

    02/20/2021 - 1335 Days begin
    1260 Days days begins on March 20th 2021 to August 31st, 2024 End of the Great Tribulation End of the 1260 days.
    Rev 12:17
    Rev 13:10
    Rev 13:14-18 ...
    Seals 1-5
    Trumpets 1-4
    Plagues 1-4

    August 31st, 2024 to 10/15/2024 = 45 Days:
    Days Immidiately after the Tribulation -
    Rev 11:9-14 - Two Witness Killed
    Joel 2: 31.32 & Matt 24: 29-31
    1 Thes 3:13-17 - Yeshua Returns with Power & Great Glory

    Rev 9:13-21 - 6th Trumpet
    Rev 6:12-17 - The Wrath of GOD
    Rev 16:12-16 - 6th Plague

    Rev 11:15-18 - 7th Trumpet
    Rev 8:1-5 - 7th Seal
    Rev 16:17-21 - 7th Plague

    Feast of Tabernacles:
    10/17/2024
    MESHIAH IN JERUSALEM THE KING OF THE UNIVERSE

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  28. The male child is Corpus Christi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJYsuPJCQyE



    ReplyDelete
  29. They're at it again.

    http://www.olivetreeviews.org/component/k2/item/13318-what-s-with-the-signs-in-the-heavens

    ReplyDelete
  30. A LITTLE UPDATE ON THE GREAT SIGN IN THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SHkWh1bhhI

    ReplyDelete
  31. Help me understand point #3 a little better, "the child is born before the woman goes into labor." I understand Isaiah 66 is clearly indicating that a birth takes place before labor but Revelation 12:2 says the woman was already in labor and in pain.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Do you really want to know the who the Child is?
    revelationnineteen.blogspot.com

    ReplyDelete


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