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Arguments Against The Revelation 12 Sign


We've written extensively about what appears to be a literal fulfillment of the heavenly sign John saw in Revelation 12:1-5 (see here, here, and here), but I want to make clear to our readers that I am not setting the date of the rapture on September 23rd, 2017.  It could happen that day or it could happen before or perhaps shortly after - it's all up to God's perfect timing and plan.  However, what I am saying is that what happens on that day does appear to be the culmination of the heavenly sign John saw in Revelation 12:1-5.  I've tried time and time again to disprove what I and many other Christians are seeing, but I simply can't no matter how hard I try.  Here are some of the common arguments against this being the sign:

1. It isn't visible in Israel.

I'm not sure who first made the argument that the constellations in question (Virgo and Leo) will not be in the sky above Israel in Fall 2017, but it simply isn't true.  The entire sign will be in the western sky above Israel and Jerusalem on Saturday, September 23rd - and how fitting that the sign that may be heralding the end of the Church Age will be seen right where the Sun sets and the day ends.  One might argue that observers can't see the alignment because the Sun is up, but that's exactly what John saw - the woman is clothed with the Sun.  And, as a matter of fact, after the Sun sets, everything but the woman's crown will be visible in the night sky.

2. This sign isn't unique, it's happened before.

Some skeptics have pointed to similar alignments in 70 AD, 3 BC, and 3915 BC in an attempt to dismiss the significance of the September 23rd sign.  The glaring problem with their argument though is that these similar occurrences fail to meet every textual requirement given in Revelation 12.  The woman is not crowned by 12 stars during the alignments of 70 AD and 3 BC and there is not a nine month "pregnancy" during any of these other alignments.  For these reasons, among others, the September 2017 alignment is unique in all of human history.

3. The moon is not under the woman's feet.

When I initially studied the alignment I was misled by images showing the woman standing upright with the moon to the right of her feet.  The text makes clear that the moon should be under her feet, not beside her feet.  For this reason I viewed the heavenly sign with some skepticism.  After all, God's Word is perfect and for His Word to be fulfilled it must be fulfilled perfectly.  Every condition in the text has to be fulfilled, which is why 70 AD, 3 BC, and 3915 BC don't fit the bill.  However, a woman in labor is not standing when she gives birth, she's lying prone, and that's exactly how the alignment is arranged in the sky - the woman is lying prone with her feet up and the moon is directly below her feet, almost as a pillow of sorts.

4. What John saw was symbolic.

I think we can all agree that the sign John saw had definite symbolic and prophetic meaning - that is not in dispute.  However, the text itself makes abundantly clear that this is more than just a parable: "A great sign appeared in heaven..." (Revelation 12:1).

Again, I'm not saying the rapture will occur in September 2017, but I am saying that the heavenly sign John saw in Revelation 12 appears to be happening before our very eyes with whatever implications that brings and I believe Jesus will be calling us home very, very soon.

In my next article I discuss two more arguments against the Revelation 12 Sign that have been presented.

There are a number of great videos I would encourage you to watch regarding the sign:






MARANATHA!

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21 comments :

  1. Great work, Gary. My thoughts exactly. You cleared that up perfectly. Thanks for posting my video as well. Blessings! Scott Clarke aka eternalrhythmflow@youtube

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  2. Thanks Scott! We are all very eager to see what God has planned for the next 9 months. Things are ramping up very quickly. Appreciate your work.

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  3. I wouldn't sweat the naysayers too much. There's just no pleasing them sometimes. I honestly don't think God has a problem letting faithful believers who are doing their level best to honor and rightly divide His Word and who are alertly watching and waiting actively and patiently to see things coming that those who aren't don't.

    I hope that made sense. =:P

    Sadly, some will always find something niggle about, no matter how thunderingly clear things are.

    It's also interesting to note that there are loads of Johnny-come-latelies starting to spring up on YouTube now, yammering about the Revelation 12 sign. As you might expect, although some actually know what they're talking about, some make up for a lack of clues with an abundance of creativity.

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    Replies
    1. Well put. I have seen some people making fantastically complicated charts with little to zero understanding of dispensational truth. But they know they have to get on board the Rev. 12 train for attention. Oh well. Just like the blood moons, it is to be expected. Keep up the great posts, Gary!

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  4. Thank you for your website! What takes place on 9/23/17 is quite significant- Hebcal.com (Hebrew Calendar) says:
    Shabbat Shuvah ("Sabbath [of] Return" שבת שובה) refers to the Shabbat that occurs during the Ten Days of Repentance between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Only one Shabbat can occur between these dates. This Shabbat is named after the first word of the Haftarah (Hosea 14:2-10) and literally means "Return!" It is perhaps a play on, but not to be confused with, the word Teshuvah (the word for repentance).

    Obviously no one knows the day or hour of the rapture...Revelation 12:5 "and her child was snatched away to God and to His throne." We don't know when the snatching will take place, but it's evident that it's close!

    If you are not a Christian and you want to make Jesus the Lord of your life, simply say this prayer from your heart:

    Dear God, I am a sinner. I’m sorry for my sin; please forgive me. I believe Jesus Christ is Your Son and that He died for my sins and You raised Him to life. Jesus, I invite You into my heart to take control of my life. Fill me with the Holy Spirit. In Jesus’ Name I pray, Amen.

    God bless you all!

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  5. Here's why Revelation 12 and the sign of the "Woman" is NOT on 3915BC. In 2017 AD Jupiter is only outside the womb for 56 days whereas in 3915 BC it is outside the womb for 125 days and consequentially is at some distance from the quadrangle. I reason that the 56 days Jupiter is outside the womb in 2017 AD and the relatively short distance outside the quadrangle can be paralleled to the extra distance a real baby may impose on the womb of a real mother. In other words a real mother's womb is enlarged but not to the extent we would see in the "so called original event" in the year 3915 BC where Jupiter is near to the bicep of the constellation. By comparison when zoomed out with the entirety of the constellation in view the maximum range Jupiter is outside the quadrangle is only the diameter of the planet for the year 2017 AD. For the year 3915 BC Jupiter is inside and outside the womb as follows...

    Jupiter enters womb...
    41 days inside womb then...
    Jupiter exits womb...
    125 outside womb then...
    Jupiter re-enters womb...
    100 inside womb
    Jupiter exits womb.

    Keep in mind, the woman is giving "birth," which takes 9 months +/- of gestation, which we DO have with the Sign in 2017, but do NOT have in -3915 or -3914 BC. There is NO OTHER sign; the ONLY ONE will be seen by the Nation Of Israel (the woman, the remnant, the lost sheep of the house of Israel) on September 23rd, 2017. Also, keep in mind, that "signs" are for the JEWS who will be going into the 70th week of Daniel. This is NOT a sign for the body of Christ Jesus regarding the rapture, harpazo, catching up, etc. The rapture has always been a secret, which includes the "timing" of it as well. Paul said he was expecting it to happen at any time for him...he never mentioned it happening on a certain day or feast day or any other day for that matter. The feasts are FOR and TO the Nation Of Israel; the JEWS, and they are all part of "prophecy" and nothing to do with the "mysteries" revealed to Paul by Jesus Christ. Our Lord Jesus didn't tell Paul the exact day the rapture would take place....it's still a mystery yet to seen one day soon. Peace and Grace in Christ Jesus be with all of you !!! - Lonnie Martin YouTube Ministry.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I disagree with you. The sign is for all those who read Revelation and who are watching and paying attention for the Lord's return. The only Jews who are going to see and understand the sign at this point are the believers in Christ who are doing that. Jesus said when you see the signs, some of which are in the sun, moon and stars you will know my coming is near. He was talking to his disciples when he said that.

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  6. Revelation 12:1 "great sign", "woman travailing in birth".
    Revelation 12:3 "another sign", "woman ready to be delivered".
    These are two different signs. The "woman ready to be delivered" happens on October 13 2017. If the pregnancy starts on November 20 2016, that means the pregnancy lasts 10 months and 3 weeks.

    The "moon under her feet". Draw an imaginary line through her feet. The moon needs to be past this point. Why? Because in the southern hemisphere they see the constellations upside down from what the northern hemisphere sees them. If you don't advance the moon past her feet the southern hemisphere will see the moon above her feet.

    The 3915 BC sign is just under 6,000 years ago which would be the time of Adam and Eve. Coincidence?

    The book of Revelation is written in a number of ways that show us that it cannot be taken apart to stick things where we want to to go. This book has paragraphs, conjunctions, progressions and counts throughout the book. We cannot stack the seals, trumpets and bowls on top of each other. We cannot take a verse out of one part of the book and stick it in another place. We cannot chop the book up in half or take it apart in any way, shape or form to make it fit our theories. It is chronological. Once a seal, trumpet or bowl is opened, it can and may overlap into the next but it cannot be before it.

    If you would like to see Revelation 12:3's "another sign", Revelation 15:1's "great and marvellous sign" and Matthew 24:30's "sign of the Son of man", go to God's Astronomy@facebook.

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    Replies
    1. Anon, why does it matter what it looks like in the southern hemisphere, the vantage point should always be Jerusalem? These are two different signs but they are seen by John at the same time, or in succession. While I do see what you are saying, to me at least, the sign of the woman and the sign of the dragon are the only signs. I don't think you should break the sign of the woman up into two different signs.

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    ReplyDelete
  8. A pregnant womb can feel what a mother feels. Even dirts and storm can be harmful to an unborn baby. So top collection by weather shop can help to give birth a healthy baby.

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  9. Revelation 10:7 | ESV
    7 but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.
    Mystery of God is Christ in you the hope of glory, Col 1:27, and as the above verse indicates that will be fulfilled or finished as the KJV translates it, when the seventh angel sounds. That would appear to be a slam dunk verse in placing the rapture at the seventh trumpet.
    Re 11:15 And the seventh messenger trumpets. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of this world became our Lord’s and His Christ’s, and He shall be reigning for the eons of the eons! Amen!"CLV

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  10. What if its the Anti-Christ showing up? An alien God, come to straighten us out after some disaster. The rapture doesn't happen and everyone believes the story of the extraterrestrials and there leader the Anti-Christ. The rapture is apart of the great deception. Just be ready. One thing is for sure. Its a sign from God.

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  11. Gary, you may have already addressed this, but the main argument I keep coming against with the Rev. 12 sign is that it is chronologically placed in Revelation to be in the middle of the tribulation. Therefore, it is not a sign in the stars but must be something else. I would really appreciate your help in answering this question with the naysayers I have come against. Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi, sorry for the late reply. Please see some of the other articles that we've written concerning the timing of the sign, such as my article here: http://www.unsealed.org/2016/12/revelation-12-escape-to-place-prepared.html

      and Gary's post here: http://www.unsealed.org/2017/05/the-celestial-c-section-defense-of.html

      Just because chapter 12 is in the middle of the book doesn't mean it is only "a mid-trib" section. The chapter is really a prophetic overview of the entire tribulation period, and the apostle John does this a lot throughout the book, where he will see visions of the Trib as a whole, but then go back to the beginning and cover the Trib from another perspective.

      The LORD bless you.

      Delete
  12. Other years have fit the description of the so-called "sign" just as well as this one, and you know it. You just refuse to acknowledge this fact because it means that you're a grown adult that still believes in fairy tales. See you on the 24th.

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    Replies
    1. All talk and no facts. Which years has this sign appeared in in the past exactly? Don't forget to site linkable sources.

      Signed,
      WON'T be seeing you on the 24th.

      Delete
  13. How can you say this is a complete gestation when Jupiter clearly leaves the so called "womb" for a number of days back in June and no, a "baby bump" doesn't cut it? Also, how is it right to take the constellation of Leo which is a lion and all of a sudden make it a crown? Its not a crown, it has never been seen as a crown and now all of a sudden its a crown on top of Virgo. These two arguments are really driving me away from believing this is the "sign."

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    Replies
    1. I think that having leo included in the planets of stars that form the crown is very fitting for reasons. Leo is a lion and lions represent kingship. Kings wear crowns. The king is above her head, is her head for that matter and Christ is the head. :) with Jupiter leaving the constellation.. total baby bump.

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  14. the real question is how can anyone possibly believe this is for now. is it an amazing sign yes, is any of it coming to pass now, no not yet, read rev chapters 1-11 theres a whole lot that has to happen including a rebuilt temple and 2 witnesses remember we need to test everything and any theorys against the bible.

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