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Gog and Magog: The War to End All Wars

Welcome to the second installment of a two-part series on the infamous end-times figure known as "Gog" from Ezekiel 38–39. In the previous post, I addressed the first of two major interpretative issues: Gog's Identity. To recap, I provided the biblical evidence for the direct referent of Ezek. 38:17 found in the book of Numbers, specifically the major eschatological prophecy of Balaam:

A man will come forth from his seed and prevail over many peoples, and he will be raised up higher than the kingdom of Gog, and his kingdom will increase (Num. 24:7, Lexham English Septuagint).

Overwhelmingly, the earliest manuscript witnesses stand in agreement and testify against the later Masoretic Text that Gog (not "Agag") is the last days' foe that comes against Israel's ultimate Messiah-King. Next, throughout the rest of the article, I discussed the passages of the Bible that infer Gog's supernatural identity as the "chief prince" who has dominion over many nations, particularly to the north of Israel (Magog, Meshech, Tubal, Gomer, etc., cf. Gen. 10:2; Ezek. 38:2, 6; 39:1). This composite supernatural view of Gog coheres strongly with the background text of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 that describes "the sons of God" [Grk. aggelos, "angels"] having dominion over every other nation apart from Israel, which is the LORD's inheritance (cf. the "principalities and powers" of Eph. 6:10-12).

Thus, after considering the evidence presented in part one, I have issued a plea to reevaluate the prevailing interpretation and understanding among pre-millenial, dispensational outlets: Gog is more than a flesh-and-blood despot who sets the stage for the Antichrist; rather, this shadowy figure is a high-ranking supernatural being who wields tremendous power over both human and demonic armies. After all, the lofty descriptor given to Gog, "chief prince," is also one that describes Michael, the archangel (Dan. 10:13; 12:1), and elsewhere in the New Testament, the chief supernatural adversary, Satan, is also referred to as "the prince of this world" (Jn. 14:30; cf. Eph. 2:2).

In part two, we will turn our attention to the second major interpretative issue of Ezek. 38–39: The timing of Gog's invasion within a pre-tribulational, pre-millennial framework. I realize that this study will likely be ignored by many prophecy students who already have their ammunition ready to defend whatever timing they affirm (e.g., before the Tribulation; in the first 3.5 years/in the second 3.5 years; concurrent with Armageddon). Believe me, I get it. I'm also suspicious of "new" interpretations that upend deeply-entrenched and widely-held beliefs.

That being said, I pray that you will keep an open mind, be willing to challenge your assumptions, and even dive into the two scholarly articles that I will lean on heavily for support. There are two key papers that have persuaded me to change my view on the timing of the Gog invasion:

1) "A Fresh Look at Ezekiel 38 and 39" by Ralph Alexander

2) "Rethinking Ezekiel's Invasion by Gog" by J. Paul Tanner

I'll weave in some quotations here and there, but you should read these works in their entirety, because the authors cite other sources to support what is essentially the same view: The timing of the Gog invasion is revealed by the apostle John in a very explicit and unmistakable chronological sequence; namely, after the thousand-year reign of Christ and prior to the Great White Throne judgment and what is commonly referred to as "the eternal state."

If you're still with me, then I'll just go ahead and spill some more beans and make the point that this view does not exclude typological or shadow fulfillments. In fact, Ralph Alexander sees a fulfillment of Ezek. 38–39 in the "bird supper" of Revelation 19 some time after Christ's literal return to the earth to judge and wage war against the nations. Types and shadows are common in Scripture, and I believe that the basic template of Ezekiel 38–39 is playing out on the world stage today, specifically in regard to hostile nations plotting to seize and plunder the land of Israel.

Nevertheless, the direct and complete fulfillment of Ezekiel 38–39 that accounts for every textual detail will not come to pass until the exact point in time that John provides in the book of Revelation. As disciples of Christ who submit to the apostolic witness now canonized in what is called the "New Testament," it would be wise to give deference to John's authoritative viewpoint which affirms the plain-sense reading of Scripture and serves as the deciding factor on the chronology of end-time events.

To bolster the post-Millennium timing of the Gog invasion, we'll begin at Revelation 20:7-10, answer some common objections, and then do a fly-over of Ezekiel in order to revisit key verses and see the passage of 38–39 in a new light. In short, I would recommend keeping a few things in mind as we go. Ask yourself: Who is Ezekiel's original audience? Where are they in their spiritual journey? What is the overarching message of 38–39 and how does the author's deliberate arrangement of this passage encourage God's covenant people, Israel?

Ezekiel 38–39 in a Nutshell

Ever notice how the answers to our most perplexing questions are often right under our noses the whole time? After the light bulb comes on, we might say, "How did I not see this before?" Or, "Why did it take me so long to figure this out?" One reason: I think it's our nature to over-complicate things. In other words, the "simple" answer just seems to good to be true, and we are constantly fighting against our personal agendas and biases that contribute to further misunderstanding. Granted, the often grueling and painstaking journey of arriving at the truth of God's word is necessary, because we are thoroughly corrupt apart from the Holy Spirit and God waits patiently for the appointed time to lift the veil and unseal His word (cf. Dan. 12:9; 2 Cor. 3:14; Rev. 22:10). Additionally, our helpful but imperfect theological systems at times can obscure the beauty and simplicity of certain passages.

All that to say, this current study has been one of those "aha" moments for me as I arrived at this conclusion: Revelation 20:7-10 is Ezekiel 38–39 in a nutshell, pure and simple. Ask any Bible teacher worth their salt, and they will tell you to start with the clearest verse or passage before you take on the more challenging parallel text. This is a wise approach and one that is very applicable when comparing Ezekiel 38–39 and Revelation 20:7-10.

Using this approach, the clearest parallel to Ezekiel 38–39 just so happens to be the only verse in the New Testament that contains the words "Gog" and "Magog." Let's look at an English translation that will read as much like the Greek as possible; this way, we'll have a better vantage point to see how the phrase "Gog and Magog" functions syntactically (i.e., how the specific arrangement of words interact together to provide meaning).

And he [Satan] will go forth to lead the nations astray that are in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them together to war, of whom the number—as the sand of the sea (Rev. 20:8, LSV, brackets mine).

For good measure, let's remove the punctuation marks to conform even more to the original Greek: And he will go forth to lead the nations astray that are in the four corners of the earth Gog and Magog to gather them together to war...

Now, if we remove "Gog and Magog," notice that the sentence can stand on its own and remain a complete thought: And he will go forth to lead the nations astray that are in the four corners of the earth to gather them together to war...

Thus, at the bare-bones linguistic level, John inserts the phrase in a somewhat abrupt way in order to illuminate or clarify the surrounding text. Breaking this down even further, here are some clarifying questions: Grammatically speaking, how does the appositive phrase "Gog and Magog" function in the sentence? What does it modify exactly? Does it only modify the nations of the earth? Or, consider this: What if the phrase actually modifies both Satan and the nations?

Think about it.

If "Gog and Magog" modifies both the subject (he/Satan) and the object (the nations), then we have even more biblical evidence to support the supernatural identity of Gog and the post-Millennium timing of the events described in Ezekiel 38 and 39 (also, if "Gog" is code for Satan and "Magog" represents the rest of the invading hordes, then this meaning would support what we already know from Scripture concerning Satan and his influence over the Gentile kingdoms of the earth - cf. Lk. 4:5-7; 1 Jn. 5:19).

The point of this brief lexical examination is to slow things down long enough to think about what John is doing here in Revelation 20:8. Additionally, we shouldn't forget the obvious: The phrase "Gog and Magog" is an unmistakable reference to Ezekiel 38–39. The apostle might as well be saying, "See Ezekiel—toward the end of the scroll!" Therefore, in lexical terms, we could also classify the phrase "Gog and Magog" as a form of synecdoche, a figure of speech where the parts represent the whole.

To restate the main idea another way, John's "Gog and Magog" is a useful shorthand to summarize all of the people, places, and events of Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39. For all you techies out there, think of this as an old school hyperlink of sorts (more examples of this type of Hebraic shorthand can be seen in Deut. 30:19, "heaven and earth" - i.e., all of creation; Matt. 22:40, "the Law and the Prophets" - i.e., the entire Old Testament; and Eph. 6:12, "flesh and blood" - i.e., all of humanity/sons of Adam).

Let's zoom out a little bit and view the "Gog and Magog" verse in its immediate context:

And when the one thousand years [is] completed, Satan will be loosed out of his prison, and he will go forth to lead the nations astray that are in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them together to war, of whom the number [is] as the sand of the sea; and they went up over the breadth of the land and surrounded the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city, and there came down fire from God out of heaven and devoured them; and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and false prophet [are], and they will be tormented day and night through the ages of the ages (Rev. 20:7-10, LSV).

From start to finish, the average reader can breeze through this passage in no time at all. However, just because we can read through it in 20 seconds doesn't mean the events being described happen as fast! Hence, this is the primary purpose for John's "hyperlink" in Rev. 20:8; namely, to redirect our attention to the anchor text of Ezekiel 38–39. In this brief synopsis, it is not the author's intention to provide the reader every detail of Ezekiel's vision. Rather, the apostle includes enough correlation to connect us to Ezekiel and unveil the primary antagonist and timing of the Gog/Magog invasion.

For example, here are some striking correlations between Rev. 20:7-10 and Ezek. 38–39 (adapted from the papers linked above from J. Paul Tanner and Ralph Alexander):

1) The "chief" antagonist leads many nations to war (from "the four corners of the earth")

Although the bulk of the invaders come from the north (cf. Ezek. 39:2), the text of Ezekiel also contains representative nations from all four cardinal directions: Persia from the east, Cush from the south, Put and the islands of the seas from the west, and Gomer and Togarmah from the north (see Ezek. 38:5, 6, 13; 39:6). Moreover, John sums up Ezekiel's account by identifying Satan as the one who leads and gathers "[the nations] in the four corners of the earth" (Rev. 20:8).

2) The staggering number of troops is emphasized in both passages

In Rev. 20:8 John says the number of invaders is like "the sand of the sea." Likewise, Ezekiel highlights the all-encompassing size of the invasion in Ezek. 38:4, 6. And see especially Ezek. 38:9, 15-16, where the prophet repeatedly states that Gog and his armies are "...like a cloud covering the land."

3) The target of the invasion is the Land of Israel, the secure dwelling of God's covenant people

Rev. 20:9 specifies that the armies go up "over the breadth of the Land" and toward "the beloved city [Jerusalem]." Speaking in broader terms, the prophet Ezekiel affirms that Gog comes against "the Land of Israel" (Ezek. 38:18), and he also designates the location of the invasion by using a unique symbolic phrase found throughout his book: "the mountains of Israel" (Ezek. 38:8; 39:2, 4). Note: In Ezekiel, Jerusalem is referred to as the LORD's "holy mountain" and more descriptively as His "high mountain" (Ezek. 20:40). Therefore, as one mountain amidst the lesser "mountains of Israel," the holy city, Jerusalem—God's "high mountain"—is the ultimate target of the invasion.

4) The LORD defeats the chief antagonist and his army by means of fire from heaven

In Ezek. 39:6, God sends fire against "Magog and those who live securely on the coastlands" (cf. Ezek. 38:22). This phrase in 39:6, therefore, lends support to John's corporate use of "Magog" (Rev. 20:8), a term which represents all Gentile nations that are opposed to the LORD and His anointed (cf. Ps. 2:1-2). The apostle John, like Ezekiel, affirms that Gog and his armies are vanquished by the LORD's direct intervention, "...and there came down fire from God out of heaven and devoured them" (Rev. 20:9). See also Satan's final, fiery doom as depicted in Ezekiel 28:18-19.

Lastly, I stumbled upon some compelling evidence related to the Gog/Magog accounts of Ezekiel and Revelation that, in my opinion, tips the scales in favor of Gog's supernatural identity and the post-Millennium timing of his invasion. This textual and conceptual thread involves four key passages that all tell the same story:

—First, aside from Revelation 20:7-10, we'll start with a parallel verse that reinforces the clear and unmistakable timing of Satan's release:

And he threw him [Satan] into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time (Rev. 20:3, NASB).

—Second, we'll look at a verse in Ezekiel that reveals the timing of Gog's rise:

After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely (Ezek. 38:8, NKJV).

—Third, things get really interesting in the book of Isaiah:

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited (Isa. 24:21-22, KJV).

—Fourth, in the book of 1 Enoch there is a section that ties all of these elements together and completes the Satan/Gog/Post-Millennium matrix:

And I saw there the hosts of the angels of punishment going...[the angel of peace] said unto me [Enoch]: '[They are going] to their elect and beloved ones, that they may be cast into the chasm of the abyss of the valley...the days of their lives shall be at an end, and the days of their leading astray shall not thenceforth be reckoned. And in those days the angels shall return and hurl themselves to the east upon the Parthians and Medes: They stir up the kings, so that a spirit of unrest shall come upon them, and they shall rouse them from their thrones...they shall go up and tread under foot the land of His elect ones...But the city of my righteous [ones] shall be a hindrance to their horses. And they shall begin to fight among themselves. And their right hand shall be strong against themselves...Till there be no number of the corpses through their slaughter...And their destruction shall be at an end; Sheol shall devour the sinners in the presence of the elect (1 Enoch 56:1-8, translation by R. H. Charles).

Regardless of your opinion on the inspiration of the book of 1 Enoch, keep in mind that this book predates the apostle John by at least 200 years (based on the dating of the Dead Sea Scrolls). Thus, the content of 1 Enoch 56:1-8 is startling once we consider that the visions in the book of Revelation had not been shown to John until many years later.

In summary, the essential narrative revealed in this four-part thread involves the binding of Satan before the thousand-year reign of Christ (Rev. 20:3) + the lexically significant link between Ezekiel 38:8 and Isaiah 24:22 (the phrase "after many days you will be visited" is virtually identical in both passages, except in Isaiah the Hebrew term paqad "to visit, appoint, punish" is plural rather than singular—this is understandable given the context of the previous verse where we see many angels "hosts of the high ones on high" gathered in a pit and "shut up in a prison").

Finally, the text from 1 Enoch 56:1-8 fills in the gaps and echoes what we've seen before: "the angels shall return." After the release of the angels from the abyss (Satan chief among their number), they will go out to "stir up the kings [of the earth]" to invade "the land of [God's] elect" and "the city of my righteous [ones]." Overall, we have further confirmation of a last-ditch angelic rebellion to thwart God's covenant promises and overtake the Land of Israel by means of human armies (note: there's even a reference to the invaders fighting among themselves, "their right hand shall be strong against themselves," see Ezek. 38:21)!

Ezekiel 38–39: Common Objections to the Post-Millennium Timing

For the sake of thoroughness, I would like to carve out this space to engage with a few of the common objections to a post-Millennium timing of Gog/Magog and the direct link between Rev. 20:7-10 and Ezek. 38–39. At first glance there appears to be multiple points of conflict, especially when considering the specific details of Ezekiel's account. However, the proposed differences are not as intractable as some make them out to be.

Objection #1: In Ezekiel 39:9, 14-15 it says that Israel's inhabitants will burn weapons for seven years and bury bodies for seven months. How can these activities occur after the Millennial Reign of Christ if the Eternal State immediately follows?

Response: Here's J. Paul Tanner with a solid answer to this objection:

The Bible does not say that there will be a thousand years from the beginning of Christ's millennial rule until the eternal state. A closer look at Revelation 20 reveals that there are a thousand years from the beginning of Christ's millennial rule until the release of Satan. It does not tell how much time transpires between Satan's release and the eternal state ("Rethinking Ezekiel's Invasion by Gog," 42).

The key text to support his point is Revelation 20:3: It says Satan will be released for "a short time." Therefore, it will likely take more time than most think—possibly many years—for Satan to entice and mobilize the nations for invasion. For a modern example, think about how long it has taken for Satan to mobilize the current alliances against Israel all the while having to contend with the restraining influence of the Church (and the Lord Jesus Christ isn't even reigning on earth yet as He will be during the Millennium!).

Objection #2: On a related note, why even go through the effort to burn weapons and bury bodies if God is just going to make the old heaven and earth pass away?

Response: Here's J. Paul Tanner again:

Perhaps, since this is the last act of war before the new creation, this is done in celebration that Satan (the perpetrator of all wars) is forever removed and war will never again plague humanity (Ibid).

God's thoughts and ways are higher than ours (cf. Isa. 55:8-9), and who's to say that burning weapons and burying bodies is irrelevant after the Millennial Reign of Christ? If you haven't already, I strongly suggest that you read Greg Lauer's article on why there will be literal sacrifices and burnt offerings during the Millennium (see "The Blood of Bulls and Goats"). Sometimes, the things that we initially find objectionable stem from a post-Enlightenment, Western mindset and/or a misunderstanding about God's purposes for Israel on the earth.

Moreover, the symbolic act of burning weapons and burying bodies to commemorate the end of all wars forever is entirely congruent with God's ways in the past (e.g., "Do this in remembrance of Me" -  1 Cor. 11:24).

Objection #3: How can Gog be Satan (or one of the other fallen angels) if he is slain and buried?

Response: Ezekiel 39:11 is perhaps the most difficult text to reconcile with the associated narrative revealed in Revelation 20, Isaiah 24, and 1 Enoch 56. However, after his release from the abyss, it could be that Satan (or some other angel) indwells a human king in order to lead the other flesh-and-blood kings to war. And specifically in Ezekiel 38–39, God calls out this fallen angel by the cipher "Gog," thus speaking to the "spirit behind the man." This spirit/human "confusion" is not without precedent in the book of Ezekiel; for example, see Ezekiel 28:1-19—the "prince" of Tyre and the "king" of Tyre (cf. the "king of Babylon" in Isa. 14:4-21). Additionally, the death of heavenly beings (Heb. elohim) is also not without precedent in Scripture—see Psalm 82:6-7.

Objection #4: What about the "hook in the jaw" of Ezek. 38:4? Doesn't this refer to resources such as oil or natural gas that the modern state of Israel currently has in its possession (i.e., the "spoil and plunder" of Ezek. 38:12-13)?

Response: Considering the inter-textual links that we've seen so far, the phrase "I will bring you back" likely builds off of the "after many days" references as seen in the four-part thread above (1 Enoch 56; Rev. 20:3; Isa. 24:22). The same concept in Ezek. 38:4; 39:2 is then reiterated in Ezek. 38:8, "After many days you will be visited." In other words, Satan (or one of the other imprisoned angels) will be "brought back" from the Abyss to wreak havoc in broad daylight once more. In the same vein, the phrase "[I will] put hooks in your jaws" does not refer to oil or gas; rather it's a literary device—a subtle allusion to the other inner-biblical references to the twisting serpent, Leviathan, whom the LORD keeps on a leash in order to do His bidding (cf. Job 41:1-2; Isa. 27:1; Rev. 12:9; 13:1; 20:1-3; see also the exact same phrase in Ezek. 29:4 in reference to the king of Egypt). Additionally, the "hook-in-the-jaw" phrase is akin to the "rod of God's anger" concept as seen in Isa. 10:5.

Objection #5: Ezek. 39:21-29 appears to imply a post-Tribulation/pre-Millennium time frame for the Gog invasion. Isn't the pouring out of the Spirit in Ezek. 39:29 concurrent with Zechariah 12:10?

Response: Along with the "bird supper," this last section in Ezekiel 39 has many parallels to other end-of-Tribulation references in Scripture (cf. Zech. 12:10; Rev. 19:17-21). Because of these strong associations, I had once leaned toward an Armageddon/Second Coming fulfillment for the Gog/Magog event (and some still say there are two "Gog" invasions). However, now that I've studied this in more depth, I acknowledge, on the one hand, the shadows, patterns, and partial fulfillment aspects of Ezekiel 39, but on the other hand, I see that John the apostle is the one who authoritatively confirms the timing of the direct fulfillment of Ezekiel 38–39.

Furthermore, the textual unit of Ezek. 39:21-29 functions more like a musical refrain, a victory song that draws upon key restoration and regeneration themes found throughout chapters 33 through 39. The purpose of this climactic passage isn't to lock down the timing of Gog/Magog (there are other contextual and chronological clues for that purpose, as we've already seen); rather, it's a summary of the entire book of Ezekiel and sets the stage for the final vision (and separate literary unit) of the Millennial Temple revealed in chapters 40 through 48.

And on that note, let's zoom out and see how Ezekiel utilizes 38–39 to further his overall message to a nation that longs for the complete fulfillment of the LORD's covenant promises.

Ezekiel 33–39: How Gog/Magog Fits into the Big Picture

Much to our benefit, the prophet Ezekiel has already provided us with a very specific chronological arrangement of his visions. Consequently, anyone who aspires to do an exegetical study of Ezekiel must adhere to the prophet's predetermined structure in order to produce a faithful interpretation—especially when the focus is narrowed to a single verse or passage such as chapters 38 and 39.

In his paper entitled "A Fresh Look at Ezekiel 38 and 39," Ralph Alexander presents an excellent overview of Ezekiel's thematic arrangement that leads up to the Gog/Magog finale. In short, there are a total of six messages woven together from chapters 33 to 39; these messages form a single literary unit that conveys an overarching message to a battered, weary, and war-torn nation in exile:

Each major section in Ezekiel is initiated by a chronological notice. Ezekiel 33:21 begins the section, which chapters 38 and 39 close, as follows: 'Now it came to pass in the twelfth year of our exile, on the fifth of the tenth month.' Ezekiel 33:21 through 39:29 contains a series of messages delivered by Ezekiel during the night prior to the exiles' reception of the news that Jerusalem had fallen (158).

Thus, in keeping with His gracious and compassionate character, the LORD gives Ezekiel an enduring message to comfort and encourage His people. The remnant of Israelites taken to Babylon had already experienced God's judgment just a few years earlier, and now they were about to receive bitter news that Jerusalem had been overtaken and the temple destroyed (circa 586 BC).

NOTE: This is the original setting and contextual backdrop in which the Gog/Magog vision was first delivered 

Isn't it like our God to deliver a message of hope right after a fall (cf. Gen. 3:15-16)? Indeed, on the very day of Israel's darkest hour, the LORD spoke life and hope to His people (cf. Jer. 29:11). A spirit of comfort and hope pervades the remainder of chapters 33 through 39—all the way up to the final vision of a new temple that will take the place of the one just destroyed.

Now that we've got some context, let's trace the end-time narrative of chapters 33 through 39. In this brief overview, we'll look at how the prophet takes the reader from Israel's devastation to restoration and watch as this motion-picture progresses from a long age of exile to the everlasting age of covenant fulfillment. The momentum will slowly build and build, and eventually—the stage will be set for the climactic showdown.

*Note: These divisions are not arbitrarythe author himself denotes the start of a new message (or scene) with the exact same phrase, "And the word of the LORD came to me, saying..."

Scene 1: Did the Abrahamic Covenant Fail? (Ezek. 33:23-33)

In this section, we see a nation in utter shock and disbelief. After the brutal judgment of Babylonian invasion, Jerusalem lay in ruins and Israel has been scattered. Some who are still left in the Land remain in denial and wonder if God has broken His promise to them:

Son of man, they who inhabit those ruins in the land of Israel are saying, 'Abraham was only one, and he inherited the land. But we are many; the land has been given to us as a possession (Ezek. 33:24, NKJV).

In other words, these wayward stragglers are asking, "We are the seed of Abraham, and this Land is our land—why were we invaded, the temple destroyed, and our people exiled?" God's answer is based on Israel's failure to keep the covenant of Sinai (a.k.a. the Mosaic Covenant), and one of the covenant curses indicated that Israel would be driven from the Land and scattered among the nations (cf. Lev. 26:32-33; Deut. 28:62-64).

Scene 2: From Bad Shepherds to the Good Shepherd (Ezek. 34)

In the first part of this message, we see God's judgment against the wicked shepherds (leaders) of Israel who led the nation astray (34:1-10). These false shepherds are then placed in contrast to the Good Shepherd who will search for and regather the scattered sheep of His pasture (34:11-31). And just as we saw the Abrahamic covenant in the first scene, so also we will see the other two major covenants in Scripture referenced in this scene:

The Davidic Covenant:

And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd. And I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David shall be prince among them. I am the LORD; I have spoken (Ezek. 34:23-24, ESV).

In the text above, God is referring to the ultimate Son of David (cf. Lk 1:32-33), and within the storyline of chapters 33 through 39, we also have confirmation that there is going to be a duel between two "princes" (i.e., the "chief prince" of Meshech and Tubal vs. the chief "prince" of Israel; recall Numbers 24:7!).

Also, when the Messiah returns and rules as the Shepherd of Israel, He will enter into another covenant with His people—a covenant of [true] peace and security...

The New Covenant:

I will make a covenant of peace with them and eliminate dangerous animals in the land, so that they may live securely in the wilderness and sleep in the forest...[t]hey will no longer be prey for the nations, and the wild animals of the land will not consume them. They will live securely, and no one will frighten them (Ezek. 34:25, 28, HCSB).

Therefore, Israel will not receive these covenant blessings at the time when they say "peace and security" (1 Thess. 5:3), but only after the Messiah returns and says, "Peace and security."

Scene 3: God Judges the Nations and Restores the Land (Ezek. 35:1–36:15)

Alexander aptly summarizes this scene:

The promise that God will clear the land of its continual invaders and possessors in preparation for the restoration of the people of Israel to that land is the subject of Ezekiel's third speech...[e]mphasis is peculiarly upon the nation of Edom, the age-long conflict between Esau (Edom) and Jacob (Israel) being set forth as the most significant example of this principle of oppression of Israel (158).

This third scene represents the vengeance of the LORD against the nations at the time of Christ's return and final conquest of the Land (see Num. 24:18-19; Ps. 110:6; Isa. 63:1-6; Joel 3:1-3).

Scene 4: All Israel Regenerated and Resurrected (Ezek. 36:16–37:14)

Now then, in order for Israel to enjoy the covenant blessings and live securely in the Land under the rule of her Messiah-King, she must first be given a new heart and the dead must be raised to life:

Having assured the people of Israel that Yahweh will remove her perennial oppressors from her land, Ezekiel 36:16 through 37:14 describes Yahweh's restoration of the people of Israel to their land...[j]ust as Yahweh brought her into exile in keeping with His faithfulness to the covenant promises of cursing in Deuteronomy 29:1 through 30:10, so also Yahweh will restore Israel in the end time according as He foretold in that same passage (158-59).

Thus, we see in Ezek. 36:24-28, the original promise of Deut. 30:1-10 fulfilled (for the New Testament parallel, see Matthew 24:31 - Israel regathered to the Good Shepherd). Furthermore, another important aspect to the Abrahamic, Davidic, and New Covenant fulfillment is the physical resurrection of all elect Israel:

...Thus said Lord YHWH: Come in from the four winds, O Spirit, and breathe on these slain, and they live," And I have prophesied as He commanded me, and the Spirit comes into them, and they live, and stand on their feet–a very, very great force. And He says to me, 'Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel...[t]hus said Lord YHWH: Behold I am opening your graves and have brought you up out of your graves, O My people and have brought you into the Land of Israel... (Ezek. 37:9-12, LSV).

Note: This is not an allegory representing the current regathering of Israel that began in earnest in 1948. Although there might be a legitimate type or shadow fulfillment that applies to the current regathering, the so-called "Valley of Dry Bones" prophesy here in chapter 37 truly speaks of the future, literal resurrection of the dead (Paul affirms as much in Rom. 11:15, 25-26). The current regathering in Israel today is premature, and the nation is still in exile during the Times of the Gentiles (see especially Luke 13:35; 21:24 in this regard).

Scene 5: All Twelve Tribes Reunited, Regathered, and Ruled by One King (Ezek. 37:15-28)

This penultimate scene reinforces the fact that we are not there yet in terms of the entire house of Israel being regathered and united as one (i.e., all 12 tribes back in the Land again):

Here's Alexander with a summary:

The fifth night message of Ezekiel centers around a symbolic act through which the joining of two sticks represents the reunion of the two formerly divided kingdoms of Judah and Israel. When asked the meaning of this act, Ezekiel elaborates on this reunion, declaring that 'My servant, David,' the Messiah, will be their one shepherd and king. All Israel's covenants shall be fulfilled at that time according to Ezekiel 37:21-28: the eternal land promises of the Abrahamic covenant are realized, and Israel shall walk in the stipulations of the Mosaic covenant, cleansed under the New covenant and experiencing the eternal reign of their king, the greater son of David, according to the Davidic covenant...[t]he people of Israel are restored to their land and are dwelling securely. Israel's covenants are fulfilled. The Messiah is present to rule (159).

NOTE: We've now arrived at the contextual backdrop for the final act in this sweeping drama of chapters 33 through 39. The context is clear: The Millennium has begun, and the Tribulation is a thing of the past.

For the final scene, we must fast-forward toward the end of the thousand-year reign of the Messiah, and dark clouds are gathering on the horizon...

Scene 6: Gog and Magog—The War to End All Wars (Ezek. 38–39).

Now that we've seen a brief overview of the lead-up to 38–39, there shouldn't be any confusion about the timing of the Gog invasion at this point:

It is not permissible to view Ezekiel 38 and 39 as an interpolation, for the normal introductory formula to a message initiates this sixth message in the series [i.e., "And the word of the LORD came to me, saying"], and the major section to which these chapters belong does not conclude until a new chronological notice appears in chapter 40, verse 1. One should not look to chapters 40 through 48 for the contextual setting: rather he should see these events within their natural division within the book...in this last speech, Ezekiel discusses a final attempt to possess the land (Ibid, bracketed explanation mine).

Along with the material that I've presented in the earlier sections of this article, a few other chronological indicators should pop with more clarity now:

After many days you [Gog] will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely (Ezek. 38:8, NKJV).

And this one:

You will say, 'I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates'...to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, and against a people gathered from the nations (Ezek. 38:11-12, NKJV).

And lastly:

Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: 'On that day when My people Israel dwell safely, will you not know it? (Ezek. 38:14, NKJV).

And what about you, dear reader? The timing of the Gog/Magog event can only occur when all Israel dwells safely and securely in their Land under their Good Shepherd, Jesus the Messiah. Will you not know it?

Conclusion: Why a Post-Millennium Timing Matters

To recap: We started with the last word first in Revelation chapter 20. As the final word on the timing of Gog and his invasion, John, the apostle, explicitly reveals that the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38–39 occurs after the thousand-year reign of Christ is completed. In that first section, we also dove into an amazing four-part thread that connected Revelation 20:3 to Ezekiel 38:8 back to Isaiah 24:22 and then to 1 Enoch 56 (Gog's identity and the timing of his invasion became even clearer).

Next, we touched on a few misconceptions and common objections to the post-Millennium timing, and we concluded by studying the preceding context of chapters 38 and 39 to show how the LORD fulfills His covenant promises to Israel from chapter 33 all the way to the end of chapter 37. Lastly, we highlighted key chronological indicators from the Gog/Magog section that emphasized the living conditions at the time of the invasion: In other words, it will be a time of genuine, messianic "peace and security" with all Israel regathered and resting peacefully in the Land.

In sum, the events of Ezekiel 38–39, while perhaps relevant for a partial or shadow fulfillment today, are not an accurate barometer to gauge the nearness of the Rapture. Rather, the Gog/Magog passage in Ezekiel is primarily directed to Israel, especially given the fact that the original readers were a dispersed and war-torn nation in Babylonian exile.

We should now be able to better answer this question: How does the Gog/Magog event in 38–39 encourage the ancient Israelites who were in exile and, by application, the Church and Israel today?

Answer: Chapters 38-39 are an encouragement because the prophecy reveals that after God regenerates, reunites, and restores Israel to the Land, all 12 tribes will be a united flock under one Shepherd—their Davidic Messiah-King—and neither height nor depth (or anything that comes up from the deep!) will be able to separate them from the love of God through Christ Jesus their Lord.

Thus, the people of Israel will be circumcised in heart under the New Covenant and truly living in a time of "peace and security" (as opposed to the professed claims of "peace and security" in modern Israel today; cf. 1 Thess. 5:3).

Furthermore, since Israel will have already been regathered from the nations for the last time prior to the Millennium, they will never again be exiled or lose the promised Land. Therefore, the Gog/Magog invasion is a last-ditch, spirit-driven rebellion to take Jerusalem and thwart God's covenant promises. But thanks be to the LORD, the "war to end all wars" comes to an abrupt end as Satan's plans go up in flames (and he goes down in flames as well, never to return again; Rev. 20:10).

One final summary conclusion: A Pre-tribulation timing and expectation for the Gog invasion robs Israel (and the Church) of the true intent of this passage; namely, to provide enduring comfort and encouragement that God will keep His covenant promises to Israel. In other words, the narrative sequence of Ezekiel 33–39 doesn't square with a Pre-tribulation framework, especially as we seek to interpret the timing of chapters 38 and 39. And consider this: God is not going to send Gog to invade Israel, bring about a swift victory, only to turn around and send His people into the Tribulation.

Grace and peace to you all in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ! The Resurrection and Rapture of the Church is the next event we are looking for on God's timetable—this is our blessed hope (Titus 2:13)! 

YHWH [is] my shepherd, I do not lack,
He causes me to lie down in pastures of tender grass,
He leads me by quiet waters.
He refreshes my soul,
He leads me in paths of righteousness
For His Name's sake;
Alsowhen I walk in the valley of death-shade,
I fear no evil, for You [are] with me,
Your rod and your staffthey comfort me.
You arrange a table before me,
In front of my adversaries,
You have anointed my head with oil,
My cup is full!
Surely goodness and kindness pursue me
All the days of my life,
And my dwelling [is] in the house of YHWH,
For [the] length of [my] days!

-Psalm 23 (LSV)

Post A Comment


  1. YESSS! Jeff! I praise God. This confirms what I shared with you and Gary in our group. I am so blessed to find this confirmation. I agree 100% and am so happy you've written this much-needed article. God bless!

    1. Thank you, sister!

    2. I've read this a few times and one area that I am seeing a difference is that I still see two wars. What drew my attention initially to studying this from a new perspective is that the Rev. 19:17-21 supper of the Lamb is the same supper described in Eze. 39:17-20. So what I came to is that while the Eze. 38/39 war is not pre-trib, it comes at the end of Daniel's 70th week, pre-mil. What are your thoughts about the supper being pre-mil?

      Stephanie wrote something about a difference between the two wars being how God brings judgment; in Eze. 38:21 He brings down flooding rain, pestilence, hailstones, fire and brimstone. In Rev. 20:9, He sends fire down and destroys them all.

    3. After the Millennium

  2. Replies
    1. ๐Ÿšซ ๐Ÿ‡

    2. Lol, where's my "Don't be a grape!" T-shirt?

  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

  4. Though I've been on the fence about the timing for years, I have to say, I feel Holy Spirit confirmation all over this thing. It fits like a glove. And it means the rapture is that much closer.

    Also, going back to Objection #3: we have a perfect template in the form of Judas, who, according to Scripture, was directly possessed by Satan himself. Ultimately, Satan was released from the man, but the man (Judas), ended up hanged and disemboweled in a field. Two entities, sharing one body, with two different ends.

    1. Likewise, Gog, the host, ends up buried in the dirt, and Satan, the chief prince, ends up cast alive into Gehenna/the Lake of Fire.

    2. Hello Jeff,
      thanks for this article. I did a skim over it and will read it again later but can I safely assume that the recent alliance between Russia, Turkey and Iran does'nt mean anything?
      You are placing this war after the millenium, the final one where the devil is released from prison. Thanks.

    3. Thank you, Gary! Awesome illustration to add to Objection #3.

  5. Jeff, few questions. What are we seeing with Russia, Turkey,and Iran? We see Sheba and Dedan Saudi Arabia and Jordan warning up to Israel. If this isn't Ezekiel 38-39 then what is it were seeing. From my studies it's not Psalm 83 due to the people groups mainly from Jordanian descent. But from your study I see Bible proof that your correct on the Ezekiel battle. I always thought it was how Israel would get the 3rd Temple. But look at Luke 17:24-37 mainly verses 31-30, I see a connection of sulfer which we see in Ezekiel 19:6 fire. I always saw Luke 17:34 as rapture verse, but see this as dead bodies. So could this be Armageddon and the 2nd coming, or something entirely different? Your thoughts please. Trying to understand this for awhile now. Thanks.

    1. Hey Brent, Jeff talks about this a few times in the article: specifically, types and shadows. But at the end of the day, the things we see today fail to fit the precise details:

      1. Turkey is technically not in an alliance with Russia and Iran, and as the news lately has shown, Turkey is actually fighting against the Syrian army.

      2. Libya and Sudan/Ethiopia are still not on board.

      3. The spoil in Ez. 38 is never said to be oil or natural gas.

      4. To be super faithful to the text: the armies of Gog and Magog are equipped with swords, spears, bows, shields, bucklers, etc. Many are on horseback. Russian, Turkish, and Iranian forces don't use any of these today.

      5. Warming up to Israel is not just SA, but also Egypt, Qatar, Bahrain, and several other Arab countries. This is necessary to have the proper context of the Dan. 9:27 covenant and a false sense of peace and security as in 1 Thess. 5.

    2. Well said. Thanks, brotha.

      Brent, as Gary said, we are seeing the lead-up to the Daniel 9:27 "covenant with many" and the false "peace and security" of 1 Thess. 5:3 (this is contrary to the setting of Zeke chapters 38 and 39, which is genuine peace and security under the Chief Shepherd ruling from Jerusalem).

  6. Brent,
    Luke 17:34 is not referring to the Rapture. Its talking about after the trib.. There is another scripture that says one will be taken from the field and the other left.
    One stays as a part of the new milleniun and the other to judgement.

    1. The passage in Luke refers to the rapture because we have the context Jesus gave us regarding the days of Noah and Lot. "....but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. In that day..." (Luke 17:29-31a). Compare this with 1 Thess. 5:2-4. Then search Revelation for the first mention of fire from heaven.

      Perhaps a minority view, but I believe it is a solid one.

    2. Hillary...That is how I see Luke 17:29-31 also. It is a minority view, and there are lots more scriptures that harmonize the rapture and the 2nd coming being the same day.

    3. Thanks, Stan. I do not see the rapture and 2nd coming being the same day, however, but separated by 7 years.

  7. The Rapture and the second coming are seperate events. Seperated by seven years.

  8. For the 3rd time in roughly 2-3months, I’ve had a dream about fire falling from Heaven. I had a “fire from Heaven” dream the day of the air strike in Iraq, during the Australian fires, and again yesterday morning. What in the world is going on??

  9. Im not sure what the grape thing means but backatcha Jordan.
    As far as i'm concerned this article debunks everything I thought I knew about Ezekiel 38,9. But im going to be okay.

    1. Don't be a grape. Beware, the wine press of God's wrath!

      ๐Ÿšซ ๐Ÿ‡

  10. https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/13/weather/storm-dennis-forecast-uk/index.html

    Dennis is going toward England now...what does Dennis mean?

  11. A coronis or koronis (Ancient Greek: ฮบฮฟฯฯ‰ฮฝฮฏฯ‚, plural ฮบฮฟฯฯ‰ฮฝฮฏฮดฮตฯ‚, korลnides) is a textual symbol found in ancient Greek papyri that was used to mark the ends of entire works or major sections in poetic and prose texts.


  12. So this is funny, because I just so happen to be in Ezekiel right now, and today read 34-39, all the while saying to myself how things just dont add up with the typical end time narrative that we have clung to. In particular Israel burning the weapons and such for a period of years. I just brushed it off as one of those, "I dont know but God does" thoughts. It really doesnt line up with before the tribulation or during the tribulation.
    So thanks for great article! It was hard for me to understand and pretty long, but it gave me a better perspective.

    So, if Ezekiel 38 & 39 doesn't support the timeframe we are in now (which I am leaning towards after reading this article) what scripture does support our present time?

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  14. Fantastic scholarship Jeff and something for the rest of us to aspire to. I look forward to reading something other than the intro and the ending when time permits.


    Quick Comment though.

    Why did you use a ridiculous "globe" image which DOES NOT fit into the 4 pillars/4 winds image you were trying to show? This proves the globe DOES NOT EXIST nor is the globe in the Bible (pssst: the vatican/rcc/jesuits/satan made it up).

    This is a proof point you made without trying to make it.

    Logically & Biblically:

    (Step 1) Draw 4 pillars;

    (Step 2) Draw a circle on top of the 4 pillars;

    (Step 3) Draw a ceiling above the 4 pillars and circle by starting at one pillar and going up then down in a curved fashion connecting the line from one pillar to the other. Do this until all pillars are connected to one another and then you should have a dome/ firmament above the circle/4 pillars;

    (Step 4) Add in the two lights and some stars if you like.

    .... Gasp! :0

    The globe picture is way too elementary for your level of Bible scholarship. See a few Bible references below for your next picture grab (love you brother, iron sharpens iron):

    The Earth is a geocentric, stationary world set on pillars:

    Job 26:11; 38:4-6; Josh. 10:13; Psa. 19:4-6; 75:3; 104:5; Prov. 8:29; Ecc. 1:5; 1 Sam. 2:8; 2 Sam. 22:8; Joel 2:10; Zech. 12:1

    The Earth is inscribed in a circular (this means it is not a ball/sphere folks) fashion into something with 4 corners and surrounded by water:

    Job 11:9; 26:10-11; 37:3; 38:12-18; Gen. 1:1-9; 49:25; Psa. 24:1-2; 72:8; 136:6; Prov. 8:27-29; Isa. 11:12; 13:5; 40:22; 41:8-9; 44:24; Ezek. 7:2; Dan. 4:10-11, Zech. 9:10; Matt. 4:8; 24:31; Rev. 7:1; 20:8

    The Sun, Moon and Stars are *IN* the firmament {and the stars shall fall to Earth}:

    Gen. 1:14-18; Psa. 19:4-6; Isa. 34:4; Dan. 8:10; Matt. 24:29; Mark 13:25; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev. 6:13-14; 9:1; 12:4

    Note: the Bible DOES NOT say the moon "reflects" the sun's light but rather the moon gives her own light. Sorry Buzz, you never went to the moon and thanks for saying you didn't. Neil couldn't face the world because he swore to keep the lie...unto death.

    There are “FLOODGATES” (aka windows) in the firmament:

    Gen. 7:11; 8:2; 2 Kings 7:2-19; Mal. 3:10

    YHWH’s throne sits above the heavens (we know there are only 3 heavens but no outer space, right everyone??):

    Job 9:8; 22:14; 37:18; Deut. 26:15; Psa. 11:4; 29:3, 10; 33:13; 103:19; 104:2-3; 148:4; Isa. 40:21-22; 66:1; Jer. 10:12-13; Ezek 1:22-28; 28:2; Amos 9:6

    1. Charlie in DC, I am asking these questions sincerely so please don't take offense because I don't mean any. Given the verses you sighted, as a child I read these or similar and remember asking my parents similar questions to what I am asking you.
      Ok, so do you believe in the planets? Has anyone ever gone to outer space or is it fake like the image of a round earth? Given the existence of the firmament, how do rockets get to outer space or are they fake like space itself is? Where then do you see Heaven? When I read about the tower of Babel it seems like God thought they might could build to Heaven which wouldn't make sense due to firmament and our inability to survive in space?
      Thank you in advance and again I am asking because I seriously want to understand what you are saying. I used to know a "flat" earther but he was the definition of believing what your itching ears want to hear and talked A LOT of nonsense. I have seen you comment here and on other sites and believe you to be a Christian in actuality and not name and therefore wanted to hear from a Christian on the flat Earth thing. I truly mean no offense and I hope you are able to see this on here. of course anyone else feel free to jump in. And to be specific I guess I don't mean flat Earth but instead dome.

    2. In the tower of Babel instance, it seems God was more concerned with them 'doing whatever they set their minds to.' As the tower got higher, they might have realized the air was getting thinner and that they needed to build the tower differently to be sturdy, but once those difficulties were surpassed, what else would need to be done? So He intervened and made it so they began having trouble understanding each other, thwarting planning and sharing and they eventually scattered about, each speaking different languages.

      In modern times, it seems He feels we are different enough from the Babelians that we have been allowed to 'be in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.' But it's also a sign of His soon coming... (Note that He mentioned seeing the son of man in the clouds before He talked of coming with His angels... This is either the most direct mention of the Rapture when we will fly away, or He was saying people would be flying in the last generation...) Either way, we are seeing the shadow of the rapture every time we see a plane, helicopter, or man with a jetpack take off and land under control (Which I saw one of those yesterday on YouTube. It sent shivers down my spine.)

      As for flat/dome/round/simulation earth? I believe it should be a non-issue in light of Jesus' warning to 'remember Lot's wife.' Don't be so curious that you look back to find out if you are right or not. You might just become a salty asteroid. (I personally lean on the simulation idea, as we are told we are already sitting with Jesus in the heavenly places... and this would make some kind of sense if we are just plugged into a mental 'holodeck' of sorts. Doesn't make it less real or diminish the importance of the 'game' if that is what this is... Observe how important we make games of our own invention...

    3. Ok thank you. Shame don't be a salty astroid hasn't caught on yet

    4. Your explanation demonstrates a 3D object projected into 4D reality. This is similar to how we draw an isometric view of a 3D object on a 2D sheet of paper. By way of comparison, study a Penrose Triangle to see what a 4D object's surface looks like when it is projected into 3D space; or a tesseract to see what a 4D object looks like from 3D space.

  15. At this point, I feel like we need Jesus to come just to explain everything the way it was meant to be understood...

    1. It often takes a LOT of time, studious effort, and prayerful consideration to get away from and actually understand what many of us have been "churched" in with regard to end time events. Or, even LATER, end-end times events!
      Jeff, you did an amazing job stating everything in a straight forward, succinct manner, and most importantly, backing it up Biblically. Thank you!

    2. Love it: later, end-end times events. Yep, that's what was explored in this article. Thanks, Jenny!

  16. About the timing of the Gog-Magog war from Ezekiel 38 and 39 nine, in my humble opinion it will happen during the first part of the Tribulation Period. See https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=nl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Funravelations.weebly.com%2Fhome%2Fprofetische-bouwstenen "Prophetic building blocks". During that war things will happen which are also described in Revelations, see below:

    I am increasingly assuming that the war will only be after the rapture, but not everyone agrees. However, when we compare the arguments, we cannot ignore them. The mountains will disappear, Ezekiel 38:20 says. How often can something like this happen? Because this also happens in Revelation 6:14 and 16:20. Do you mean that the mountains will grow again and then disappear again? Of course not. These are 3 texts that all describe the same event, only from a different perspective. But this is not the only starting point. I have listed them for you:

    1. Ezekiel 38: 2: In Amos 7, in the Septuagint, Gog is mentioned as the king of the locusts (compare Revelation 9: 3-11)

    2. Ezekiel 38:16 speaks of a later time , large crowd of nations from the north - that was the war route, even for countries in the east (compare Revelation 16: 12-14, 19:19)

    3. Ezekiel 38:19 speaks of a great earthquake (compare Revelation 6:12, 8: 5, 11:13, 16:20)

    4. Ezekiel 38:20 says the mountains will disappear (compare Revelation 6:14, 16:20)

    5. Ezekiel 38:22 speaks of hail, blood (Rev. 8: 7) and the plague (Matt. 24: 7)

    6. Ezekiel 39: 3 speaks of a bow (compare Revelation 6: 2)

    7. Ezekiel 39: 4 and 17-20 talk about birds that eat the dead bodies of kings (compare Revelation 19: 17-18)

    8. Ezekiel 39: 6 speaks of fire (compare Revelation 8: 7)

    9. Ezekiel 39: 21-22 says that people and Israel will see His glory (compare Revelation 19:11)

    10. Ezekiel 40-48 then deals with a temple built in the Millennium (Rev. 20)".

    1. Yeah, it is always interesting to read other opinions and the article states it's case well, but for me personally there are far too many differences and way too much spiritualization required to try and align the God/Magog wars of Ezek 38-39 and Rev 20.

      Ezekiel chapters 38-39 is well placed between the return of the Jews to their land from all the nations (in Ezek 36 & 37) and the description of the Millenial Temple and Kingdom age (in chapters 40-48). ie It is between those, coming before the Millenium. If the timing of the Ezek Gog war was at the end of the Kingdom age it would have been placed after chapters 40-48.

      Also apart from the differences in nations involved, motivation for attack, direction of attack, place of destruction, type of death and burial for Gog, the need for the Kingdom age to be 1007 years, there is another telling passage for me. It is Ezekiel 39:22-23 which states the outcome of this war for both Israel and the Gentiles:

      "So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword." (Eze 39:22-23)

      The outcome from this war is that the nation of Israel shall know the Lord "from that day forward". It doesn't make sense to think that this occurs after Israel has lived with Jesus ruling and reigning in their midst for 1000 years. It is most likely a reference to the end of the trib when the chosen of Israel cry out for their Messiah saying 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!'... and He comes! And they look upon the One they have pierced, (Zech 12:10) seeing Him face to face! It is from that day forward that they completely know He is the Lord!

      Note also the outcome of the Ezek Gog war upon the Gentiles. It says they shall finally understand why Israel was dispersed and judged among the nations. Again, this is start of the Kingdom age territory. It doesn't take another 1000 years for the Gentiles to comprehend this.

      So I personally believe the Gog/Magog war of Ezek is at the start of the Tribulation but the full outworking of it, as seen in Ezek 39:21-29 especially, takes us to the end of the Tribulation and the coming of the Lord in glory. That is when both Israel and the Gentiles shall see His glory as declared in Ezek 39:21. That is when God makes Himself known among the nations (Ezek 38:23).

  17. The thing that really should also be keyed in upon is that, although Jeff has done an outstanding job here in explaining Ezekiel 38 & 39 and it's true timing, we shouldn't forget that, as Jeff pointed out, there are types and shadows that will happen beforehand - before the main event. Many may read this article and assume that the current geopolitical situation with Russia has nothing at all to do with Jeff's explanation here of this battle and it's ultimate timing. Or that we are not still seeing the set-up to this war.

    In scripture, there is a real phenomenon called "the law of double reference." This law of double reference is a structure that causes a prophecy to repeat itself in the future. It happens in the past and also points to it's ultimate fulfillment in the future. To demonstrate this concept, let's look at what Ecclesiastes has to say about it ...

    “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us”(Ecclesiastes 1:9-10).

    “That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past” (Ecclesiastes 3:15).

    In this case, I think we're looking at a double fulfillment of this prophecy in types and shadows. We see a very intensifying situation between America and Russia right now on the world stage. It is very obvious at this point that the globalists fully intend to start a war between these two world powers. One should find it very prophetically suspect that in ancient Israel, the disappearance (rapture) of Elijah took place with two bears being a central feature of the story of his disappearance. As many of us may know, God patterned America after ancient Israel (link below).


    This being the case, we should expect that elements of the Ezekiel 38 & 39 passage will be fulfilled shortly after the rapture or sometime during the Tribulation with the bear also being a central feature of our (the church's) rapture just like Elijah since Elijah is a God-ordained picture of our rapture. As we know, Russia's emblem is the bear. This prophecy that I call the "Bear Rapture Prophecy" must find it's fulfillment while America is in it's current role as the prophetic vineyard of Matthew 21 during the church age.


    This cannot find fulfillment after the Tribulation is over and not just after the millennial reign of Christ is over because America will no longer be in it's role as the vineyard of Matthew 21 patterned after ancient Israel. So, it must find fulfillment in it's first phase shortly after the rapture at some point. That makes what's happening on the geopolitical situation with Russia and America and allies very significant as it pertains to Ezekiel 38 & 39. After the rapture and during the Tribulation, we are going to see Russia and it's allies fulfill prophecy as Ezekiel 38 & 39 describe, or at least some elements of it. The first phase, or first fulfillment of it will occur in proximity to the rapture during the Tribulation, but then the second phase will be as Jeff described it in it's ultimate final fulfillment. Let's not forget the law of double reference. The Bear rapture prophecy of 2 Kings 2 is one element of this Gog/Magog prophecy that makes me strongly suspect that this is an Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 and 3:15 event.

    Bottom line, the current geopolitical situation between Russia & allies and America and it's allies are indeed a sign of the nearness of the rapture. Jeff may disagree with that, but maybe not.

    1. Further still, "Gog" is indeed a very powerful demonic spirit ruling in Satan's kingdom. In the Hebrew, the word "locust" can be an idiom for demon spirits or evil spirits. In the Septuagint of scripture, we read in Amos 7:1 ...

      "Thus has the Lord God shewed me; and, behold, a swarm of locusts coming from the east; and, behold, one caterpillar, king Gog."

      The ancient Sumerians lived in a part of the world which was predominantly Iraq. They had one of the earliest alphabets in history. There was a word in that language spelled "Gug" with the letter "u." In the English it translates as "Gog." That word means "darkness." Communism's feature is spiritual darkness and it is an ideology that has killed multitudes. More specifically, it slaughtered millions of people. It is an ideology that has defined Russia from the early 1900s forward for about 70 years. It took the Bible away from people. It took faith away from people. It introduced atheism onto the world scene and thrust an entire section of the world into utter "darkness." This ancient Sumerian word "Gug," translated as Gog in English, means "Darkness." The southern part of Russia is said to be predominantly Islamic. Many of them will be a part of this battle.

    2. ETDD, I read your site as well - great job BOTH of you. And, thank you.

  18. I definitely appreciate the detailed, in-depth study of the Word of God. I think we need more of that type of scholarly analysis, and I appreciate all the time that was spent on it. I can tell there is a sincere desire to find the truth, and that we want to be like the Bereans who searched the Scriptures.

    There is a lot to be said for this theory, but I have two objections that (as far as I could tell) were not covered. The first deals with the purpose of these events. In Ezekiel 38:23 we are told that God did it so that He "will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord". In Ezekiel 39:7 we are told this: "So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel."

    Why did God do it? So that He would be glorified among the nations, and so that Israel - which had been polluting His name - would stop being wicked and honor Him. If this battle takes place before the Millennial kingdom then that makes sense. But if it happens later, then that means the battle takes place in a world where Jesus has been reigning on Earth from Jerusalem for more than a thousand years - a world where the saints are raised, the prophets are alive again, and the entire planet is utterly saturated with the knowledge of God (Habakkuk 2:14), and everyone goes to Jerusalem to worship Jesus. Moreover, God promised that when He gave Israel a new heart and they repented (which they will do at the end of the tribulation), Israel would never leave Him again - which means they will never profane His name again (Jeremiah 31:31-34). Ezekiel 36:24-38 seems to say that Israel's cleansing will happen before the Millennium, not after it. It is true that Satan will return and deceive the nations, but it's hard to believe Jesus will have to prove to Israel or the nations that He is real when He is living in their midst and reigning over them as their King! I think that Israel repents at the end of the tribulation and never strays again - which means this battle must take place before the Millennium.

    The other thing that concerns me is Ezekiel 39:10. Before the battle Israel had been heating their homes by burning wood cut down from the field. If this takes place after the Millennium then that is very strange. What happened to electricity? Why has the world lost all understanding of science and regressed to burning down trees to heat their homes? I would expect the world of the Millennium to achieve astonishing things, given that it will be a world of righteousness and peace.

  19. There are some well formed opinions on both sides of this. The point that I dont understand is the burning of weapons.
    Modern weaponry is made of metal which does'nt burn easily.

    Whenever this war takes place it amazes me that even after living on earth with Jesus in the millenial paradise that there will still be millions who will rebel.
    This is where the burning of weapons makes sense. During the millenium there will be no more war or need for modern weapons and so they will have to resort to primitive weapons. Rocks, spears, bow and arrow etc..

    1. Hi, I don't know if this can help to understand but I do know that there is now a material made of wood as solid as steel which is used to make houses without using steel or metal. Here in Canada, we have a factory that makes houses out of this kind of wood. No metal frame. Perhaps it is this wood which is used during this war and which will have been transformed into weapons of war instead of houses? Carole

    2. Thats an interesting thought but there are a few issues. First, metal weapons have been very efficient at killing people for over two centuries. What would be the incentive to change?
      Also I doubt very much if a weapon made of wood could withstand the intense heat when a bullet or some other ordinance is fired.

    3. I have issues withe the the thought that people will revert to swords and arrows in the future. After a whether after the trib or after the millennium, will people suddenly en masse forget how to make gunpowder? Pipe bombs? I can see how things like nukes, which take a huge amount of resources to create wouldn't necessarily be used, but basic explosive devices aren't that complicated - so I think the "swords, shields" etc are more likely ancient terms for modern weapons rather than evidence of a time period where it is speculated that a sword is easier to come by than a gun.

  20. I guess I am still confused, on the order of ALL the end time events. A chart showing the timeline when all the Battles are to occur in their Order would be SO HELPFUL, not only to me but I would guess many others on the web. THANK YOU in advance!

  21. Jeff,

    Part II doesn't disappoint! You offer a fresh perspective which is compelling and worthy of further study. The timing of the Gog, Magog war has long troubled me as many have tried to make this a twice fought battle being both before and after the Millennium.

    I appreciate the connections you have made here and the invitation to dig deeper on this time to come. Count me in to dig on this more.

    With thanks,


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  23. Some great questions and thoughts being raised. As we consider additional points, let's not lose sight of a few key things:

    1. Both sides have significant issues that have to be dealt with. When debating pre-trib, Armageddon, or post-millennial views, certain things always come up regarding similarities and seeming differences. Remember, the Bible is REPLETE with patterns, but that doesn't mean all similar things are the same. Antiochus was a type of the Antichrist, but not the man himself. Egypt was beset by plagues like those in Revelation, but that doesn't mean Armageddon happened 3,500 years ago. Jacob had 12 sons. That doesn't man his sons are the twelve apostles, etc.

    The point being, the Bible, and Bible prophecy in particular, is filled with types, repeats, and dual fulfillments (take Rev. 12 as just one prime example we have discussed many times). Jeff addressed this directly in his article. We see things in this world that are a shadow of Ezek. 38-39, but the only fulfillment that will directly fulfill the words occurs, according to John, after Satan is released from the Abyss post-millennium.

    2. When arguing the three different sides I think we should circle back to a key point Jeff brought up: what is the clearest Bible reference as to the timing? John directly references Ezek. 38-39 in Rev. 20. It's the only direct reference in the entire New Testament. He places it after the millennium to come.

    This is not to say there couldn't be an earlier "Gog and Magog" pre-trib or contemporaneous with Armageddon, but it would be an argument from silence, using pattern only.

    3. ***Note that omission does not equal difference.*** We have to be cautious with these conclusions. To give an example of what I mean:

    Rev. 20 says Gog's armies are destroyed by fire.

    Ezekiel says Gog's armies are destroyed by rain, hailstones, and burning sulfur (Ezek. 38:22), as well as fire (Ezek. 39:6).

    Now this could mean that there are two Gog/Magog wars, the first with rain, hail, burning sulfur, and fire, and the second with just fire. ***OR*** it could mean there is one Gog/Magog war with rain, hail, burning sulfur, and fire, but the apostle John mentions only fire.

    In other words, Rev. 20 does not contradict Ezek. 38-39 on this point, it just doesn't mention all the details of Ezek. 38-39.

    Likewise, each of the four gospels offers many different details about Jesus and His ministry, some details even differ over very specific conversations and miracles. Are we to assume that there are four different Messiahs named "Jesus"?

    1. 4. The outcome of the battle in Ezek. 39:21-29, though superficially similar to the Second Coming, when taken literally, more closely mirrors post-millennium. The millennium will be a time when the knowledge of God covers the world, but the Fall is still very much in place for those not resurrected. And the world itself will still be wounded from the Fall. It envisions a time when Israel will be completely redeemed without any of the effects of sin (39:26-28).

      Additionally, God will be directly manifest (Ezek. 39:29; cf. Rev. 21:3). Regarding the nations (Ezek. 39:21), note that "nations" can refer to Gentiles in general, just as easily as it can refer to the geographic entities. The nations are present post-millennium (Rev. 21:24-26). Also note that in Ezek. 39:21 God displays His glory to the nations. Compare to Rev. 21:23-24.

      5. There are key details that are particularly hard to reconcile with the pre-trib or early-trib Ezek. 38 view. Namely:

      -Gog's armies have shields, bucklers, swords, bows, arrows, clubs, and spears. The modern Russia-Iran-Turkey theory largely ignores these key details. I imagine there isn't a bow and arrow, nor spear, in the entire Russian, Iranian, and Turkey militaries. This armor and these weapons mentioned do not align in any way with 2020.

      -Many in Gog's horde are riding on horseback. Same issue.

      -Burning of weapons. Again, this doesn't align with pre-trib or early-trib. Israel will only remain in the land for max 3.5 years at this point, leaving for the wilderness at the AOD. On top of this, the Trib is an extended period of extreme judgment from God. Marking bodies with flags and gathering weapons to burn doesn't easily fit with the picture of the Day of the LORD we get in Scripture. These are things carried out at a time of relative peace (hence 39:21-29).

      -While the spoil=oil scenario fits nice with 2020, it doesn't fit nice with Ezekiel 38. The spoil is explicitly listed as "silver and gold... livestock and goods" (38:13). These are things of very limited geopolitical value today, but definitely things of great value at the time Ezekiel recorded his prophecy, and perhaps of great value at the end of the millennium. At Armageddon, the world will have been largely destroyed, and the armies arrayed come to destroy Jerusalem and defeat the returning Christ. They'll care nothing for gold and silver at this point.

      -Unwalled villages dwelling securely. I've heard some creative explanations for this, but at the end of the day, not only is most of Israel's external borders with the West Bank, Gaza, and Lebanon walled and fenced, including with watchtowers, but most of Israel's enclaves in Judea and Samaria are walled and fenced, too. Additionally, as Jeff mentioned, Israel is NOT secure today. It's a false sense of security, if even that. They are surrounded by enemies, not occupying all of their own land, and constantly targeting by rockets, snipers, knife attacks, and terrorist bombers. In the Trib it will only get worse.

    2. I'm thinking the same thing here as you and Jeff basically. I think an Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 and 3:15 pattern of this prophecy is getting ready to be played out on a "lesser scale" fulfillment or dual fulfillment that will involve Russia, but yet, will find it's full "grander scale" fulfillment after the millennial reign of Christ. Prophetic pattern is a structure built into scripture that has a peculiar way of always playing out.

      Jeff's article cites Paul J. Tanner in objection 1 to the post-millennial reign objection and gives a very reasonable answer, but yet, we should also find it very prophetically suspect that the Tribulation is seven years and they will burn the weapons for seven years as well. This would be another case for, as you and Jeff have pointed out, an Ecclesiastes (my words) fulfillment in a "lesser scale" or dual/type/patterned fulfillment before the big "post millennial reign show" occurs.

    3. This makes the current unfolding geopolitical situation between Russia and it's allies vs. America and it's NATO and various other allies as "Gog/Magog-ish" signs of the approaching rapture event of the church. We should still look at these current "Gog/Magog-ish" signs currently emerging on the world scene as a sign of our departure.

      Excellent article Jeff.


      Quoting, Gary (above),

      "Gog's armies have shields, bucklers, swords, bows, arrows, clubs, and spears. The modern Russia-Iran-Turkey theory largely ignores these key details. I imagine there isn't a bow and arrow, nor spear, in the entire Russian, Iranian, and Turkey militaries. This armor and these weapons mentioned do not align in any way with 2020."

      I had not thought about this until now, but why would we have air forces, armies and navies in the Millennial Kingdom? Of what use would they be?

      If they had all been dismantled and destroyed then what is left to arm mankind in its final rebellion? Swords, shields, bows, arrows, etc...exactly the kind of weapons that can easily be made (low-tech) by hand.

      Just typing this seems so absurd!

      I cannot imagine Christ's Kingdom in need of a military budget. Such low-tech weapons make sense in a post-Millennial uprising Scripturally speaking. What kind of a moron thinks that mankind will rise against G-D and get away with it?


      If anything, this is the FINAL test of human beings in the flesh. All that exists beyond this time is eternity.

    5. I had a random thought about this... perhaps it's the variety of weapons being talked about, and not what they are? A prophet from 1500bc looking at a modern army may not understand what guns, tanks, missiles and aircraft are, but would understand their purpose.

      Imagine if we had modern prophets and they were shown the world thousands of years in the future. How would they begin to describe the things for which we have no concepts for? (Yes, I know the world isn't going to continue for thousands of years on it's current track, just giving the example as a thought exercise, nothing more.)

    6. A Thought Exercise: Yes!

      I'm with you Kris and have thought (if not assumed) the same thing too. But that said, what if that which was recorded by Ezekiel is what was seen? Ezekiel seemed pretty specific at what he saw didn't he? John describes the things he saw in more abstract or symbolic terms save his vision of the LORD Himself.

      I take the appearance of the LORD as absolutely literal.

    7. It's like that other prophet's vision of a flying scroll case that had a talent of lead inside it. (King James translates it as a basket with a witch inside, oddly enough)

      He was told that it was a thing that desolates the lands in the latter days. Funnily enough, a fission weapon uses a heavy lead weight to slam against the radioactive material at extreme high speed to trigger the nuclear reaction...

      But all the prophet could figure out is that it looked like the container for scrolls, just much bigger and able to fly.

    8. I noticed that a good number of machine guns still have wooden parts such the AK 47 but that is not the only one. I wonder if the Jewish people will be burning the parts of these weapons to supplement their need to heat especially if the Ezk. war is during the Tribulation since I suspect regular supply of gas and oil will likely be disrupted. Just wondering.

  24. Jeff, thanks for this article! You raise some excellent points and there is a lot for me to digest. One question that came to mind for me is concerning the objectors to the invasion in Ezekiel 38

    13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

    The current conventional thinking for a pre-trib/early trib Ezekiel 38 war is that the modern nations of Saudi Arabia/Gulf States along with Britain and America are in view here as protesting the invasion of Israel. However, if the ultimate fulfillment of Ezekiel 38/39 is after the Millennium, then will there be a future collection of objecting nations? From the way you described the invasion, you seemed to be suggesting that the selection of invading nations, representing the four cardinal directions, represent all nations of the world, but there must be a collection of objecting nations to account for verse 38:13. How do you see this playing out in the post-millennium scenario?

    1. Jeff may have a different thought on this, but for me, it's easy. The answer is Ecclesiastes dual fulfillment. The biblical law of double reference that Ecclesiastes speaks of. There will be a lesser scale fulfillment of the prophecy post rapture but at the start or before the start of the Tribulation before the big gig large scale and primary fulfillment post millennial reign of Christ.

      The lesser scale may not play out exactly like the big gig post millennium, but there is enough fulfillment of it there so that it satisfies the other elements of the lesser scale event that may not happen in the bigger and primary event. As Gary pointed out, types, shadows and pattern are replete throughout scripture.

    2. Huge point Gary brought up above:

      "***Note that omission does not equal difference.*** We have to be cautious with these conclusions."

      I want to echo this sentiment and say that we must also be careful when trying to synchronize texts, especially between different literary genres (e.g. legal writing, narrative, poetry, epistolary, etc). Gary brought up an excellent point about the Gospels about how certain texts, on the surface, appear to contradict one another. We should respect each biblical author's perspective and try to determine what they are doing with their words rather than merely pitting each author against the other based on word associations alone (similar to what some people do with Paul and James in the New Testament).

      I'll pose this question as an example of what I'm at getting at: Does Proverbs 26:4 contradict Proverbs 26:5? Which one is right? Well, the wise and discerning answer is both. It all depends on the situation and the context. Sometimes you just need to put a fool in his place; other times, it just ain't worth it...

      Another example: In John 20:22, Jesus breathes on the disciples and says, "Receive the Holy Spirit." Wait, what? The disciples didn't receive the Holy Spirit until Acts 2, and this was after Jesus had already ascended back to heaven. Does this mean there are two Pentecosts?

      Do you see the breakdown here in logic? If we apply the same principle—pitting John against Ezekiel—we are imposing on the text rather than letting each author freely choose how they want to present a single event.

      Like the Proverbs 26:4-5 issue, it takes wisdom and discernment. Let's press on toward maturity in our Bible interpretation and learn to differentiate between a "literal" translation and a "woodenly literal" interpretation.

  25. I would also add to the Ecclesiastes dual fulfillment narrative that, as we have discovered that Gog is a very powerful demonic entity functioning in Satan's kingdom, we know the demonic spirits come back to a place where they were dislodged from ...

    "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation" (Matthew 12:43-45).

    After Satan is bound at the end of the Tribulation (or any time interval between the end of the Trib and the start of the millennial reign of Christ), we have Satan and his demon servants under him bound for a thousand years. When Satan is released, the evil spirit Gog must get released with him and "go back to his original place that he was dislodged from and find it "cleaned and swept" so to speak Matthew 12). In this case, Gog will once again take his position that he held previously and make the execution of his previous action, the second and ultimate fulfillment of the first shadow fulfillment or action that occurred after the rapture a millennium earlier.

    Given the operational procedure of demons expressed in Matthew 12 by Jesus, this is another strong case of duel fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 & 39 as Ecclesiastes would have it.

    1. One argument against this idea that one could make is that the "Gog" spirit is not currently lodged in place to instigate a post rapture/Tribulational dual fulfillment. But, it has to be. Remember that, as already pointed out, the word "darkness" is associated with the word "Gog" and that is where it has its meaning. What was lodged in Russian Communism (or at least 'was' there for about 70 years since 1917 when the Russian revolution started up until recently? You got it, "darkness." So, obviously, that evil spirit must first be there in order for it to return for the dual Ezekiel 38 & 39 fulfillment. The darkness of Communism that was lodged in Russia for 74 years is evidence of an upcoming dual fulfillment when combined with the other evidence.

      One must remember that there are gems hidden below the surface of scripture that aren't always spelled out concisely, although hints may be there. This is where discernment from the Holy Spirit might come in.

  26. Excellent work here, Jeff. I wondered about Russia, Persia, Turkey et al attacking Israel for their oil only to show up again at the end of Revelation. And horses ? Surely they have tanks, missiles etc. I’ve heard Pastors say it comes 3 1/2 years after the Trib starts, etc. The 7 years of burning the stuff also made me wonder if Ezekiel 38, 39 starts right after the Rapture.

    How coincidental Wuhan is the city used in his book.


  27. Gary, thanks for the comments above. Re your point: "We see things in this world that are a shadow of Ezek. 38-39, but the only fulfillment that will directly fulfill the words occurs, according to John, after Satan is released from the Abyss post-millennium."

    Can I just add one thing here? John never says that the Gog/Magog of Revelation is the only fulfillment of Ezek 38/39 or even that it is a direct fulfillment of Ezek 38/39. That is reading far too much into his words. Yes there is a connection with the same name of Gog/Magog and the same spirit of rebellion. But that doesn't mean it is the same event anymore than every mention in scripture of the fall of Babylon has to be the same event and time!

    John, using a common Jewish method of interpretation simply sees another fulfillment of a pattern. The Jews of the first century didn't just believe in a single fulfillment of prophecy. Nor did they believe in 'the law of double reference' as such. They did use the common Jewish interpretation of 'Midrash' and saw ongoing repeated patterns and cycles of a prophecy or picture, which continued and increased until its final fulfillment.

    John, in Rev 20, is simply using Midrash. He sees the final rebellion of Satan and the nations as the last and final manifestation of Gog/Magog spirit coming against the Lord and His people. He connects the two passages in that respect. But that doesn't mean it is the same event as Ezek 38/39. It isn't. It is just the final repeated cycle and pattern of the Gog/Magog spirit.

    When reading Ezek 38/39 it is important to ask WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THE WAR IS.
    Gog's purpose in Ezek 38 is for the spoils of war, as opposed to the ultimate rebellion and defeat of Jesus Himself in Rev 20.
    God's purpose is also clear in Ezek 38/39. He wants the nation of Israel to finally know Him. In fact He says 'the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God from that day onward.' (Ezek 39:22) So if they will know Him from that day forward, ask yourself when could that be? When do they come to know Him and will continue to know Him from that day forward? Is it after Jesus has already been reigning with them in Jerusalem for 1000 years? Or is it tribulation/2nd coming stuff when the nation finally, after 2000 years of blindness in part, acknowledges and comes back to, and sees visible, the One they pierced?

    Oh well. Probably no point saying any more. We all have Bibles and the Spirit of God to teach as long as we are like the Bereans. And at the end of the day we are only disagreeing on the timing of a prophesied war! I very much doubt it will be a question asked to enter heaven! : )

    God Bless.

  28. If I may add my input to this, the question of when will Israel finally know that he is the Lord is something to think about.
    We cant assume that the future offspring of the Jews that survive the tribulation will all fall in line and be obedient even after being with Jesus all those years.
    If we look at Israels history they were a disappointing and disobedient lot and they paid for it with the occupation of thier enemies and when the promised seed finally came they killed him. The sin nature will still be present in all the post trib. survivers both Jew and Gentile.
    With that said I think that Israel will require one more purging. Meaning that some of the people prosecuting the war against Jerusalem will be Jewish.

    1. Mainer/All,

      You're on the right path. We know that the woman (Israel) will be nourished, cared for, taught and protected in the wilderness for 1,260-days. So during the time of Jacob's Trouble, the Great Tribulation, that remnant will come to faith and begin their walk with Christ. This is the most obvious time that the greatest body of believers we know as coming out of, and being, Israel will come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

      This group will enter into the Millennial Kingdom.

      But just as their forefathers who crossed the River Jordan to take possession of the land, how long was it before rebellion took root again? In the time of Joshua it was alarmingly fast. About a generation. Mankind will still bear a sinful nature on day one of the MK.

      So now what?

      The glorified body that is the Church will be fused to Christ having been completely endowed with His righteousness. All that is left of our former selves will have crossed over into death and all that is Christ will take its place. So on that Day to come we will be just like Him -- just like Jesus.

      I take that as an eternal truth.

      But men and women who enter the MK will still be flesh and blood. They will still live with the sin nature albeit without the "benefit" of Satanic temptation. Now, if Christ is King and a very visible King at that; what excuse does mankind have at NOT confessing Christ?

      To ask the question in a different way, like the fallen angels before them, what excuse does mankind have when they fall away (again) and rebel against G-D?


      I believe you're right when you say that one more purge will be required. That's exactly what you see at the end of the age when humans led by Satan rise against the LORD one last time.

      The thought of this concept is astounding. It's the garden all over again on steroids. Even worse, it's the fall of the angels and the garden and the attack of Cain all in one.

      You nailed it! "The sin nature will still be present in all the post trib. survivers both Jew and Gentile." This is one more reason why Satan is released -- there is to be one more purge to purify that which is left in flesh and blood and pave the way into eternity. It will be a separation of those who Love the Lord their God and those who love themselves. It is a separation of the wheat from the tares.

      There is a term that farmers use to describe tares -- they call them "cheat". Cheat is a weed that looks like wheat but has a fatal *flaw*. The head of fully formed and mature wheat bows down under the weight of the fruit they bear where tares don't. They stand tall. The fruit they bear isn't enough to bend them over.

      But what of those who remain faithful? What happens to the one(s) who Love God with all their heart, mind and strength? What happens to those who daily confessed Christ and walked with Him? What happens to those who laid down their lives to the Loving purpose of God in Christ? Will they be changed too on their entry through the gates of the New Jerusalem -- on their entry into forever?


    2. Pastor Rich...What happens to those that accept Christ during the millennium has been of high interest to me in my studies.

      Revelation 20:4... Those of us raptured or resurrected will live and reign with Christ a thousand years.

      Revelation 20:5 defines this group as the first resurrection.

      Revelation 20:6 says those that hath part in the first resurrection, on such the second death hath no power.

      That causes a time out in my Bible fledgling mind.

      This second death must of course require a 2nd resurrection after the millennium.

      Daniel 12:2 says some will awake to shame and everlasting contempt. In my opinion, this 2nd resurrection will contain all the past souls that died without accepting Christ, including all the ones before and also during the millennium.

      Then there are those that die during the millennium that have accepted Christ.

      This is just my opinion as I have not read or heard this from anyone except my own fledgling brain waves. I believe that the white throne with Christ sitting on it as per Revelation 20:11 has Christ judging the dead. Revelation 20:12 states such, and the dead were "judged" out of those things which were written in the books just opened. Revelation 20:14 says "and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

      What convinces me that those that died in Christ are are exempt from the second death because Revelation 20:15 states..."And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
      In my simple mind that means those found in the book of life at this white throne judgment are of course not cast into the lake of fire.

      So here we have resurrected saints and one group left during the millennium...those that accepted Christ and are still alive. What guarantee do these alive saints and resurrected saints have that they will get to enter the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven? Revelation 21:7-8 tidies both groups up.

      Revelation 21:7..." He that overcometh SHALL inherit ALL things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

      Revelation 21:8..."But the fearful, unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters,and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burnett with fire and brimstone: which is the SECOND death."

      I feel 1Corinthians 15:23-28 completes my fledgling train of thought.

      1Corinthians 15:23..."But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits, afterward they that are Christs at his coming." Here we alive and dead saints me Christ at His 2nd coming.

      1Corinthians 15:24..."Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

      1Corinthians 15:25..."For He mustresign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet." This is after His millennial reign.

      1Corinthians 15:26..."The last enemy that shall bc e destroyed is death." Revelation 20:14 stated earlier and I repeat.. ..."And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

      In closing ..1Corinthians 15:27 says..."For he hath put ALL things under His feet." ...and the next verse 28 says..."And when ALL things be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son of Man also be subject to Him that put ALL things under Him, that God may be all in all."

    3. Correction. 1Corinthians 15:25 stated should have said "reigns" instead of "resigns".

      Geesshhh....If one could go to hell for not proof reading, I would be first in line!

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    5. Thanks Mainer. Just to clarify, by quoting Ezek 39:22 I was just pointing out that it is at the second coming that Israel, and the whole world for that matter, comes to know God. That doesn't mean that all are saved or there are no more problems with those still in their fallen bodies during the Kingdom age. I agree with you... Clearly there will be as Rev 20:7-10 & Zec 14:17-18 show.

      BUT THIS IS THE POINT - At the 7th trumpet, the mystery of God is finished! (Rev 10:7) It is complete. God, Himself, will be a mystery no more to His creation! Every eye will see Jesus Christ in complete glory (Rev 1:7) and everyone will then know who God is. It is at that point that the fullness of the New Covenant made with Judah and Israel then comes into play where:

      "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." (Jer 31:34)

      No more will they have to teach another (as we do today) saying 'Know the Lord'. All of Israel will know Him for He will be present, in their midst, as He was from the early days in the Garden. No more mystery. No more uncertainty. No more debates about the timing of the Gog/Magog war! : ) They will know Him. And this begins with His 2nd coming and the setting up of His Kingdom when Israel comes into the benefits of the New Covenant.

      The outworking of the Ezek 38/39 war, as stated for both Israel and Gentiles (Eze 38:23, Eze 39:21-23), when they will all know and see His glory, occurs at the 2nd Coming. It doesn't take another 1000 years. All the best.

    6. Stan, thankfully it was a typo, but a good one at that : )
      If He ever decided to resign I would be in a lot of trouble!

    7. Thats all fine and I dont dismiss your comments but we cant avoid the burning of weapons aspect of this discussion.
      When was the last time you saw a tank on fire? And when they talk about the enemy riding on horses do you think John was talking about the newest 250 hp. Ford escalade? I dont think so.
      I support the conclusions of this article but if im (were) wrong we shall soon find out.
      And dont forget, these weapons will be burned for seven years. After 3.5 years the Jews will be in hiding during the tribulation.

    8. I noticed that a good number of machine guns still have wooden parts such the AK 47 but that is not the only one. I wonder if the Jewish people will be burning the parts of these weapons to supplement their need to heat especially if the Ezk. war is during the Tribulation since I suspect regular supply of gas and oil will likely be disrupted. Just wondering.

    9. Hi Mainer, yeah the burning of weapons is an interesting one. There may be things that we don't fully understand yet but I think a lot of that comes down to not fully understanding the horrors of the Tribulation period. I mean, which of these sounds more likely to you...

      1. Israel burns weapons for fuel for 7 years, during a 7 year tribulation period, where wars, famine, desperation and untold horrors unfold.


      2. At the end of the Messianic Kingdom, the final rebellion of Satanic and earthly forces is put away with fire coming down from heaven which 'devours' them (Rev 20:9). With all opposition of angelic and earthly forces now complete, it's finally time for the long awaited new heaven and new earth, right? (Rev 21:1). Sadly no. Israel has to first spend 7 months 'burying' those 'devoured' by heavenly fire. They also, despite living in the kingdom age with the greatest prosperity and abundance this planet has known since the Garden, have to spend the next 7 years burning the weapons for 'fuel' (which obviously the fire from heaven didn't do for some reason). 7 years on, when Israel has finally burned it all, then the Lord can get rid of this first creation and create the new heavens and the new earth!

      I'll leave that with you. I'm probably stacking the deck a little there but maybe you see my point : ) I don't think I'll write anymore on this thread. I am mindful that amongst all the cheers and high-fives I'm sounding (and partially feeling!) like the Grinch who stole Christmas! Ooops. At the end of the day people will believe what they will and, as I wrote earlier, we are only debating the timing of a war still to come... Not something critical to salvation!

      You have a good day Mainer!

      P.S LookingUp! - Yep! ;)

    10. Hi elgordo,
      I appreciate your sense of humor and logical interpretation of the Gog/Magog war. As you said above, this topic is nothing critical to salvation, and I thought you presented your views with gentleness. Nicely done!

    11. That's the spirit!

      We should be able to approach these topics with some measure humour. We don't have all the answers but it is good to be able to talk about the possibilities and see where the Spirit leads the conversation.

      No matter what, if it leads us to dig deeper in scripture and prayerfully seek the Lord in our devotional time then all the better!

    12. Ahhhh... Well that didn't last long! Like a monk just having to have a natter with someone a few hours in to a vowed year of silence... or a nun diving off unseen to burger king on day 2 of her 40 day fast... I'm just very very quickly breaking my self imposed exile to say cheers LookinUp! Appreciate it : ) And like the name by the way. What else can we do? As Larry Norman once sang:

      "Don't ask me for the answers, I've only got one
      That a man leaves his darkness when he follows the Son"

      And PR, you always debate in a good spirit, which others have noted and commented on. A good example. Cheers : )

      Right... back into my vow of a self imposed year, argh, well, night, of silence! (While I sleep ��)

  29. To answer your last question Pastor in my way, if anyone gets to that point- the resurrected saints from the Old Testament and us the new-bodied believers will enjoy all eternity without end.

  30. Hi Jeff ;

    Very nice work. I have a different perspective. I believe the Arab War of Psalm 83 will occur 1st. Then Israel will be "safe" and the 3 nation Ezekiel War will occur. Tribulation will occur. At the end of the Tribulation, Armageddon war happens between Satan and Jesus. After Millennium, another Gog/Magog war happens.

  31. Gog and Magog

    Ezekiel 38: And the word of the Lord came unto me saying, Son of man, set they face against Gog, the land of Magog, the prince, chief of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, and say thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the prince, chief of Meshech and Tubal: and I will turn thee back and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armor, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords.
    Today's understanding of the territory of the land of Magog is that this refers to Russia. But, I don't think that is the case. Although the territory of Magog was occupied by, and was once a part of the
    USSR, history has seen to it, that what used to be is no longer the case. These territories are all Moslem territories.
    The correct Hebrew translation of Ezekiel 38:3, should read: "Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the prince, (pause) chief of Meshech and Tubal.
    All atlases of the Bible printed before the 1940's show the land of Magog to be in the northern part of Iraq, just north of Baghdad, and Meshech and Tubal are in the area that today is Turkey and portions of northern Syria as well as northern Iraq.
    From this it's clear that Gog (Antichrist, the Chief Prince), will be from Iraq and that he will become the Chief Prince (once again) of that portion of Turkey and the northern part of Syria along with Iraq, which again is the former Seleucid/Hashemite Kingdom, the kingdom grown out of the Moslem Empire, the seventh Empire on the land out of Babylon.
    The seventh kingdom, represented by the Feet, on Nebuchadnezzar's great image, historically, becomes the Moslem Empire (which was also split into two parts), and the toes, growing out of that Empire will be kingdoms, loosely united, from within the Roman portion of the Grecian Kingdom, that will fulfill the remainder of the prophecy of Daniel and Revelation.
    This prophecy is describing the Antichrist's kingdom! Gog, the spiritual prince , who is the chief of the lands that describe the Seleucid/Hashemite Kingdom, is who God is against, not Russia. It's Antichrist who comes down on Israel, not Russia. Russia may be allied to these nations, but in the end, Antichrist double crosses them all, and they wind up at Armageddon.
    This is borne out in the correct Hebrew translation of Ezekiel 38:3, which should read: "Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the prince, (pause) chief of Meshech and Tubal. (Gog is the Prince of Grecia - out of the pit) And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth - It's God who will control the movements of Antichrist.
    God turns the Antichrist back when He swallows up the army chasing the Jews into their hiding place in the wilderness, and then puts a hook in his jaw and brings him forth (Michael gives Satan the boot) to continue his outrageousness (Satan was wroth with the woman, so he went and kicked over their altar, and proclaimed himself as God, in God's temple, and slaughtered the remnant of them in Jerusalem who were worshiping Christ) until it leads to the show down at Armageddon. Frankly, what does Russia have to do with any of that? The Antichrist would have to be Russia?
    How long is it going to take everyone to come to the realization that this all comes down to the Jews against the Muslims, and who, is defending who, at the final battle. So, all the nations will be involved in the conflict.

  32. So now, with spring approaching, and all of the elements of the prophecy in place to fulfill the peace prophesied by the Jewish Prophet, Daniel (Daniel 9:27), I remind you of the warning sign that will confirm this to be the time:


    And remember, God always WARNS His people!

    For an in depth study of the Biblical account of the end of the age prophecies go to:

    Ezekiel 33:6
    But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand.

    1. Surely the Lord God does nothing without telling His people, the prophets...

    2. Thank you Gregg but isn't the 1st fruits festival already over for this year? carole

    3. Carole
      Now, the Feast of First Fruits, the promise of the full harvest yet to come was a feast that was held on the first day of the week, Sunday, after the first Sabbath, Saturday, after the first day of Passover, which could be on any day of the week, because it was always on the 14th day of the month. Keep in mind that the Jewish day begins and ends at sundown. So the beginning of the first day of the week, Sunday, begins at sundown on Saturday night. In Hebrew, the word for dusk and dawn is the same, as they occur at the same moment.
      This year the sequence is Erev Pesach 14th of Nisan, 5780 April 8,2020 to April 12,2020 18th of Nisan, 5780 Pesach IV (CH''M)


    4. Thank you! It's a pleasure to learn here! Carole

    5. Gregg,
      as you were asked several times on the discussion forum, if you have no sound evidence on the 40 day warning please stop parading this false idea here on the main page. The is NO rapture 40 days before the rapture.

    6. We don't know yet if Gregg's understanding is wrong... It does seem pretty shaky, and I imagine such an event would change the entire course of the world, just as Jonah's warning did...

    7. Mike
      I was met with alot of hostilite in that discussion forum, so I don't even go there anylonger.
      Ascension Day is the Rapture Day(shadow cast by that day).

    8. Gregg - I'm sorry you felt the replies were hostile. None of the moderators, including myself felt that way. You should rather rejoice that others found holes in your theory, and dig deeper, pursue Him more to find the best possible answer(s). No worries that is your decision. Enjoy the time over here!

      Kris Garrison - the biggest issue I have with Greggs theory is that it is selective and exclusive of living believers & does not incorporate ALL those who have died in the Lord. We cant have a rapture of selected 'dead in Christ' then 40 days later the rest are risen with those alive and remaining. Scripture does not support this beyond reading into the text and creating a shadow when one was very likely not cast.

      Imagine yourself on that day watching graves open, and other supernatural phenomenon occur (perhaps other believers who were shipwrecked or otherwise where remains were never recovered. some portion of their 'planted seed' would yield to the 'flower' or resurrected body) then thinking "I'll go to my brothers/sister/father/mother/insert a deceased believer ______" only to find their grave is still in tact. What happens to your mindset then? Is this Satan? Is this a deception? How can God raise some and not others? Lack of harmony, but confusion created which would not be of God.

    9. This comment has been removed by the author.

    10. This comment has been removed by the author.

    11. Mike and Kris

      I don't agree with the tradition assumption of a world wide "dead in Christ rising first".
      And I'll show you why!
      1 Thessalonians
      003:013 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the
      coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
      But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow
      not, even as others which have no hope.
      004:014 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring
      with him.
      004:015 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming
      of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
      004:016 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
      004:017 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
      004:018 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

      There is no point in the dead in Christ rising if them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

      Also in 2 Corinthians 5:4-9
      And John 14:3

      From our perspective the dead in Christ are sleeping.
      But from the dead in Christ's perspective there with the Lord.

      Basically the Rapture is the removal of the Body of Christ.
      And those that do rise go into Jerusalem and preach the Messiah.

      Paul didn't need to explain what he just told them.

      But here we are trying to figure it all out,and with out background
      you'll just be assuming.

      Heaven and earth shall pass away.....But of that day and that hour knoweth no man!

      I know what I know,and its clear to me.

      This event has more to do with the Jews and Jerusalem than with us
      You don't have to know any of this as a "new creature in Christ"
      you'll just disappear along with the rest of us.

    12. God has the ability to do anything He wants. If Gregg has really found the Lord's plan, then we watch and wait for the fulfillment. But if it doesn't happen, we can assume it was misunderstood and continue looking for the Lord's plan to work itself out. We don't have to get hostile over this do we?

    13. Thank you for that Kris, and that's all Paul wanted for us to do is watch and warn!
      At some date in the future that day will happen.
      What harm is it to watch!
      Since the recent events in the middle east and signs to be observed especially from this web site.
      I'm excited, to see that the sequence of set times on the Jewish calendar are the same as in Jesus time.


  33. Great article but I am unconvinced. I feel there are as many, or more, parallels between Ezekiel 38-39 and the battle of Armageddon of Rev 16 and Zechariah 12-14.

    One difference that has not been mentionned is that in Ezekiel 38 God gathers the nations, but in Revelation 20 Satan gathers the nations.

    I think Objection #5 is the strongest argument. There are quite a few verses that point to a pre-millenial war.

    Ezekiel 39:13: "So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel."

    Ezekiel 39:22: "So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward."

    Before this event, his name was not known, and his name was polluted in Israel. This to me seem to indicate a pre-second-coming event where Israel had not yet seen Jesus.

  34. Hello all, could someone who does'nt agree with this article address the burning of weapons issue.
    If this war is imminent even possibly this year they are not going to fight it with wooden weapons.
    Metal does'nt burn, it melts under extreme heat from a torch, electric plasma torches.
    During the 1000 yr. peace on earth period war will be non-existent. The devil will be in a cage and wont be able to make trouble. When he is let out and goes to work turning people against God again are they going to dust off the old F-16's, tanks, M16's, rpg's that have sitting around for a 1000 yrs. and attack Jerusalem?
    Not likely, they will have to use what they have available which will probably be weapons made of wood based materials which will...burn.

    1. Burning of the weapons could be symbolism for total victory.

      But in your position, if fire comes down from God from heaven to devour the armies, how come the wooden weapons are not burned in the process?

      And why does it take 7 years to burn a big pile of wood? Even millions of weapons wouldn't take that long. I think modern weapons could take a long time to dismantle, recycle or burn.

      If this is literal, Ezekiel says people won't gather wood from the fields or forests, does that mean everyone is cooking and heating with wood?

    2. Mainer
      Good question, I don't know either.
      could be symbolic like Wanderer said.
      200 miles 4' deep of blood, make's a hell of a stench.

  35. Those are good questions, what im wondering is when they burnt the weapons did they do it to get rid of the material meaning they just wanted to dispose of it or maybe the Word is saying thats how long it took before it was gone. They may not have necessarily started a big bonfire and burnt it up all at once. It was used productively.

    And as far as recycling the metal, recycle it to do what? The Word says it takes 7 yrs. Assuming that the Ezekiel war starts soon and were raptured, by the time all this metal is 'recycled' the first resurrection of the just will have occurred and the new millenium will have begun.
    I suppose the Old testament saints could use the metal to make plows out of, thats possible.

  36. Prophetic language is symbolic oftentimes. Don't take the specifics too literally. You have to look at the general thrust of what it's talking about.

  37. Ezekiel 39:9,10 spells it out pretty clearly. The weapons are burned for fuel, they dont have to go the forests or fields to get thier wood.
    It says this plainly. Im gonna let the Word speak for itself.

  38. I remember reading a couple prophecy books back in the mid-2000s that discussed how Russia was manufacturing weapons out of a strong, wood composite. I don't remember the names of the authors but it was pretty fascinating.

    1. It's true! I also heard information of this kind a long time ago. and it seems that it made excellent weapons of war. Very difficult to destroy. I remember it very well! Carole

  39. My question then is about the who's who of Gog and Magog after the millennial reign. If fallen angels are the ones deceiving the masses again, and at such a grand innumerable amount, are all those people going to hell after living for 1000 years with Jesus? I would imagine so; but to deny Christ even during His reign?! Unbelievable that people would turn against Him even then by listening to demons. I suppose it's human nature, but are the kingdoms of earth separate from Israel at that time? Are there separate nations running governments in different ways (like now)? Jesus is the King of Kings, so I imagine there will be other kings who, in a hierarchy, follow after Jesus. It perplexes me that Jesus wouldn't be the sole leader of the world, and that there would still be kings over nations of the earth. Are people not immortal during the 1000 year rule of Jesus? Do people who get Raptured stay in Heaven during Jesus's rule on earth? I don't want to come back to live on earth for 1000 years under Jesus if there's SOME possibility I will be deceived by satan at the very end and ultimately go to hell after all this...

    1. Serqonion,

      Those are all good questions some of which are explained in Scripture and others will take some prayer and time with the Lord to get a glimpse at.

      One of the pin-points I would aim you at first is this,

      4 Around the throne were twenty-four
      thrones, and seated on the thrones
      were twenty-four elders, clothed in
      white garments, with golden crowns
      on their heads.

      (Revelation 4:4 ESV)

      Take note of these that sit upon the thrones arrayed around "the throne". By verse nine of (Revelation 5) you see them singing "a new song saying,"

      9 "Worthy are you to take
      the scroll and to open its
      seals, for you were slain,
      and by your blood you ransomed
      people for God from every
      tribe and language and people
      and nation,

      10 and you have made them a
      kingdom and priests to our
      God, and they shall reign on
      the earth."

      (Revelation 5:9-10 ESV)

      Who these are, where they are and when they are is critical to the question you ask.

      Just this weekend I was pondering the same question you bring up, "deny Christ even during His reign?!" It would seem so. But how?

      The answer that came to me was that man, humans in the flesh, had become envious and distrusting of their rulers and no longer believed the Lord to be who He is. They believed a lie sewn by Satan that they were living in iniquity and were being oppressed and prevented from having something better. That they were being denied power and freedom of choice.

      It is good old fashioned pride.

      I would also point you to (Revelation 19-20). Take notes as you study and even *listen* to an audio version of the Bible -- that may help you see more clearly and free your mind to focus your attention. (Most Bible apps and online versions can be used in this way.) Listening first and then diving back into print is an effective strategy.

      ...and don't forget, PRAY continuously. Seek the Spirit with a humble and hungry heart!

      I hope the pin-points above help you find answers. As much as I, or anyone else here, could answer you directly -- so much better it is to dig for treasure yourself and then come with your questions.

      Happy hunting!


    2. Serqonion

      "The who's who of Gog and Magog"

      If the story line in Daniel is read literally the drama described therein can be found on today's stage of history.

      To demonstrate the truth of that, the nations of Ezekiel 38 must also be taken literally. When that is the case, you find that Magog, the place where Antichrist comes from, is right in the heart of the territory that Satan has always controlled.

      That territory has come down through history in the hands of many nations; Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, Rome, Muslim and Hashemite. Those are the Empires and Kingdoms that have occupied the land of the Bible.

      Daniels' prophecy concerns the final days of the Jews, and their holy city Jerusalem. The story is very complete, as it starts you out by developing the land area on which the drama is going to play out, along with the information of who the spiritual influences are that are over those lands. He brings us to the end time days, and describes a new kingdom growing up in that very same land, with the very same capital, and the king that sits upon the throne in that kingdom becomes possessed by one of those spiritual influences.

      Revelations 13 and 17 directs you at who the spiritual leader is.

      By taking the territory of Magog, for where it has always been, and right where it still is today, and leave it there, then Daniels' whole story is as clear as a bell, just as God said it would be in it's time. The circumstances evolving in the lands of the Bible on today's stage of history are playing out Daniels' story to the letter.

      The following is taken from the work of Carl Ludwigson:

    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

    4. The following is taken from the work of Carl Ludwigson:

      Ezekiel's Gog / Antichrist is the enemy from the north. In the Old Testament, the king of the north has reference to the areas of Syria, Turkey, and Iraq. The word north is used of Syria or the Old Seleucid Empire six times, of Babylon sixteen times, of Assyria one time, and of Iran one time. These are the lands once occupied by Magog, Gomer, Togarmah, Meshech and Tubal.

      Meshech, Tubal, Togarmah, Dedan and Syria traded with Tyre six centuries before Christ [Ezek.27:13-16]. These lands clearly define the north. The fact that some scholars equate the names of ancient Middle East cities with modern English cognates is appalling. Meshech is NOT Moscow; Moscow just had its 850th birthday.

      Some have interpreted the Hebrew word 'rosh' in Ezekiel 38:3, which is translated 'chief', to be a reference to Russia. In the Massoretic text the words 'chief prince' carry the accents Tiphha and Zaqeph-gadol.

      The Tiphha appears under the resh of the Hebrew word 'rosh'; the Zaqeph-gadol appears on top of the sin of the Hebrew word 'nish'.

      The Tiphha to the right, underneath the initial consonant of the word 'rosh', or chief, is prepositive and does not mark the tone syllable. See Kautsch and Cowley's *Grammar*, page 61 item 9.

      The word 'nish' or prince has the accent Zaqeph-gadol which is disjunctive and indicates a pause. See Kautsch and Cowley's *Grammar*, page 60 item 4b.

      So Ezekiel 38:3 should be read as follows: "Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the prince, {pause} chief of Meshech and Tubal:" Rosh is not Russia.

      The Hebrew word 'rosh' is translated head or chief 423 times in the Old Testament. Again, it is absolutely appalling how some scholars can equate the English cognate 'rosh' with Russia. Rosh is not Russia.

      Thank you Carl Ludwigson for that lesson.

    5. All atlases of the Bible printed before the 1940's [and the Russian scare] show the land of Magog to be in the Northern part of modern day Iraq, just north of Baghdad.

      Meshech and Tubal are in the area that today is Turkey and portions of northern Syria as well as northern Iraq.

      It is clear that the leader, Gog / Antichrist, will be from Iraq and that he will become the chief prince of that portion of Turkey and the northern part of Syria along with Iraq, which is a good part of the Old Hashemite Kingdom.

      The Hashemite Kingdom is the Kingdom of Muhammad, the prophet of Allah, the other side of the regions spiritual coin. The direct descendent of Muhammad, and the present ruling king of a pseudo Hashemite Kingdom, has vowed to regain his ancestral land, since it was stolen from him in a military junta in 1958.

      His present puny little kingdom was a gift from the British to his Grandfather in payment for the aid given to Lawrence of Arabia in 1916. At the time, the land was called TransJordan and belonged to the Palestinians.

    6. Serqonion

      Gog, from Magog will become Gog when the false deliverer has risen to his power position, and as Daniel puts it, he becomes the eighth ruler out of the seventh kingdom in the succession of kingdoms who had authority over the Jews, and flowed through Babylon. The kingdoms were; Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, Rome, Hashemite [the seventh, modern day kingdom] and out of it, the eighth ruler ascends the throne, but as the possessor of the little horn, seventh king, who is the Hashemite King.

  40. To add comment to the above question, im quite sure that we as new-bodied believers or the resurrected saints from the O.T. and tribulation martyrs will be vulnerable to Satans temptations. The people who survive the tribulations future progeny will still be vulnerable because of the inherent sin nature which will remain in them. I dont think this is anything to be concerned about for us.

    Concerning something else I saw in Ezekiel that leads me to think this is an event in the distant future.
    It seems to show that there will be a lot of trees around Israel at that time. As far as I know now Israel is a semi-desert like climate without an abundance of trees, which indicates the climate will be wetter, capable of sustaining more tree/plant life.
    It says that there will be so many wooden weapons laying around after the battle that they wont have to go into the fields and forests to cut down any trees for fuel.

  41. Proverbs 16:18.
    It was true for Satan before mankind.
    It's true for us in the here and now.
    Looks as if it will continue to be the downfall of many in the days to come.

  42. To correct my above comment. We will NOT be vulnerable to Satans temptations when hes let out of jail.

    1. No, we won't be susceptible to Satan's tricks will we?

      All that would have fallen for his lies will have been left behind, consigned to darkness and death never to rise again. In its place the righteousness of Christ will have been poured at FULL STRENGTH filling us to capacity! Overflowing! When the Father sees us He will see His Son.

      Christ cannot be divided. Neither will we be tempted ever again.

      NO, we will NOT be vulnerable to Satan's temptations when it is let out of jail. Sadly, humans in the flesh will still be dealing with sin and fall away.

  43. At https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/145395/israels-top-rabbi-im-currently-in-discussions-with-the-messiah-himself/ "Israel’s Top Rabbi: “I’m Currently in Discussions With the Messiah Himself”".

    This means that this rabbi is talking with the one who will be the antichrist.

    1. An interesting find Moin!

      Here is the site that spawned this article,

      Lots of Interesting Geula Info from Rav Zissholtz (2/16/20)

      ...it includes notes in English and an interview in Hebrew. Sorry, I am not the guy to translate the interview. Key notes are offered on the page as a translation but not word-for-word.

    2. Quoting their transcription notes (Part I),

      "Rav Yaakov Zissholtz said the following in a recent radio interview with Yehonatan Dadon on Radio 2000:

      Rav Dov Kook Shlit"a was asked over 10 years ago when the Kinneret will be full. He replied, "When Mashiah comes." (The Kinneret is expected to be full in the coming weeks BE"H.)

      Rav David Abuhatzeira Shlit"a started greeting people standing up since his grandfather, the Baba Sali, came to him in a dream and told him that the Mashiah will come to him and he needs to stand for him.

      A number of years ago, a group of great rabbis were sitting around a table in Bnei Brak to try to bring Mashiah. In the room was Rav Yehuda Ze'ev Leibovitch ZT"L, who insisted that Mashiah should not come since he already went through the Holocaust and he didn't want there to be another Holocaust and if Mashiah comes, there will be a Holocaust. After Rav Kopolovitch argued with him about it, he stuck to his argument. Later that year (in 5770), Rav Leibovitch passed away and before he died, he said that his death is so that 1 million Jews don't die.

      Rashi on Tehillim 47:4 says that Hashem in the future will bring a plague upon the nations so that the Jews are atoned for.

      Rav Chaim Kanievsky Shlit"a first (in 5775) said that Mashiah is at the door, then he said that Mashiah already passed the threshold of the door, then he said that Mashiah is already here. He most recently told Rav Chulak that Mashiah is already here with both feet speaking with me. Rav Zissholtz explains this as various revelations of Mashiah, each one a greater revelation than the previous one. He says that every word of Rav Kanievsky is weighed and doesn't say extraneous words.

      There is more than a minyan of great people who have met Mashiah.

      The Mashiah knows he's the Mashiah, but doesn't yet have the power to act.

      We are currently in the middle of Gog Umagog. Gog Umagog is a spiritual war of faith in G-d, which will culminate in a physical war only at its very end.

      A certain Tzaddik said that this Adar, we will see "Great Things"

      Another Tzaddik said that according to the current situation in Shamayim, there will not be Israeli elections - rather, there will be a war. He added that this will be a reaction to the Deal of the Century. This, however, can change in Shamayim.

      Another Tzaddik said that all the military operations in the past few years will be a mere sprinkling of what is yet to come.

      Rav Yoshiayu Pinto Shlit"a has dreams that come true and can be considered prophecy. His dreams were very scary as to what will occur in the future. However, there are other great rabbis who are working to mitigate the Din.

    3. Quoting their transcription notes (Part II),

      (As Rav Fish pointed out a couple weeks ago,) a Teimani rabbi from over 700 years ago in the book ืžืื•ืจ ื”ืืคืœื” (which is available in Otzar Hahochma if you have a subscription, but couldn't find in HebrewBooks) predicted that the year ืชืฉ"ืค would be the year of the Ketz(, based on the gematria of the word "ื™ืขืŸ" in ื‘ื—ืงืชื™).

      The Brisker Rav ZTL's prediction

      If the elections do take place, voting the upcoming elections is only necessary to prevent a Hillul Hashem, but other than that, it's pointless since no government will come out of it. As Rav Kaduri ZT"L and the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT"L both said, Bibi will be the last PM before Mashiah.

      The Geula Watches - after starting and stopping a number of times - have finally struck 12.

      Rav Ovadia Yosef ZT"L was MBY. Rav Ovadia said that Mashiah is here and we have to pray.

      Natural disasters are occurring all over the world, including the coronavirus, fires in Australia, some other disaster that was to occur in the atmosphere is occurring now.

      Hashem is bringing an end to all the evil in the world. For example, China is a land of idol worship. This will bring about a new world.

      In the beginning of the year, there was a scare of the flu in Israel, but it became quiet. This threat in Shamayim was transferred to the coronavirus - just as Rashi mentioned above.

      As part of this spiritual Gog Umagog, we need to do Teshuva. And we should definitely not do things that will delay Mashiah's coming.

      We need to pray, "Oh Heavenly Father, please bring the entire Am Yisrael back to have them do Teshuva!"

      Rav Yehoshua Leib Diskin ZT"L said that G-d-fearing people will be saved in the final war and G-d-fearing means to separate from the non-Jewish culture.

      May the Geula come speedily with mercy."

    4. DISCLAIMER: The above has been shared as a data point to aide in personal exploration. This is not to say that the source or presenters are authoritative, personally known by me or even reliable. It is shared as information alone and should be evaluated in light of scriptural truth, personal prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

    5. If this rabbi is already talking with the one who will be the antichrist, he should mention his name and from which nation he comes from. When that 'messiah' comes from Europe, all alarm bells should ring.

    6. We already know that the 'messiah' will be of direct Jewish descent. That narrows the field a bit doesn't it?

    7. One more observation as I really need to get back to work...

      The article linked above states there is a group of men known as the '36'. Without going into detail on them I noted that their interest in gematria and numbers was high. Looking at the number 36 we can break it down to,

      2 ( 6 + 6 + 6)

      Now is it me or do I recall these rabbis are expecting TWO 'messiahs' to come? I believe they do.

      Any connection?


      One could wonder.

  44. I read the Israeli papers online to keep abreast of their take on world events.
    That said, I have a SERIOUS question with regard to any speculation form Rabbi's or other Jewish leaders.
    Why? Why should we give any regard or credence to what they're saying with regard to "Masiah" or anything else?
    As a whole, the Jewish leadership (Sanhedrin) got it wrong when Christ came the first time.
    We also know that many will worship the coming anti-chirst as the "Masiah".
    So, while it's interesting speculation, and I agree the time is close, WHY?
    SERIOUS question - I'd really like to know the answer(s).

    1. They are deceived into believing a lie.

      To us it *may be* a sign of the times. A sign of the seasons...but you're right in what you say, "the Jewish leadership (Sanhedrin) got it wrong when Christ came the first time." Scripture tells us they will get it wrong again.

      Nothing against the staff of Breaking Israel News, and without going into details here, their reporting/writing leaves something to be desired for accuracy and precision.

      Still, it is an interesting data point especially if there is a shred of truth in any of it. (Thinking prophetic dreams and visions that are claimed and reported) Time will tell as events unfold. We all know that G-d can, and will, use anyone He wishes to His purpose.

      A case in point,

      49 But one of them, Caiaphas,
      who was high priest that year,
      said to them, "You know nothing
      at all.

      50 Nor do you understand that
      it is better for you that one
      man should die for the people,
      not that the whole nation
      should perish."

      (John 11:49-50 ESV)

    2. Thank you, PR.
      After I wrote the post, I also remembered Paul.

    3. Bless you Jenny, bless you!

    4. Rich, I think it was you that mentioned back in June that if someone found the date you wouldn't believe it anyway. I think this is the answer to this...

      1) Barge will go over Niagara Falls on March 4th
      2) Trump will die of a heart attack on March 11th
      3) The End Times will begin on Pentecost on June 7th, 2020

      After the barge goes over on Mar 4 make sure watch this entire videohttps://youtu.be/5PgifKlhfIk

      If the day were knowable, at this point most people would not believe anyone else anyway, and so it makes sense that this is how God would do it. He would use someone to learn His big picture of signs, and reveal these predictions ahead of time in order to prove this big picture of signs and the conclusions for the date. This is how prophecy works, and it is the reason why 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy. For God to prove the matter. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, Rev 19:10. 
      This is a link to a video that explains how it is known that the barge that has been stuck on the rocks of the Niagara River for 101 years will go over Niagara Falls on March 4th, 2020. 7 days later President Trump will die of heart attack on March 11th, 2020. These conclusions are absolutely, and inextricably tied to the following conclusions, and therefore, when these events come to pass on Mar 4 and Mar 11 this will prove certain the following other conclusions. 1) The date the End Times begins is knowable, and it is certain beyond a reasonable doubt that it will be on Pentecost on June 7th, 2020. 2) The identities of the two Antichrists are knowable, and it is certain that they are Pope Francis and Barack Obama. 3) The Lord is pouring out judgment warning signs specifically on the American evangelical church for its Nicolaitan deeds and doctrine (Calvinism and Free Grace), that Jesus said he hates in Revelation chapter 2. The nation and the world is a mess because the Church is a mess, and judgment begins with the Church. 4) The Lord's End Times signs is a big picture puzzle, in which each piece is dependent on the others pieces for their full, true intended meaning. This is why these conclusions are inextricably tied together. When these events come to pass on Mar 4 and Mar 11 this will prove that this method of interpreting the signs as a whole, rather than isolated events, is correct. Similar to how the Bible needs to be interpreted as a whole, rather than through selectively using isolated passages. If you truly love the Lord's signs, after these events come to pass I'm sure you will want to watch every minute of this long video series that explains the Lord's big picture of End Times signs. Every minute is important and mind boggling. When these events come to pass it will arguably be the most important achievement of the watching community. I believe the watching community should unite around, and focus on, getting this information out about how this was known ahead of time. God bless.

      YouTube clearlywrittendotnet


  45. I personally am going to take anything the Jews say with a grain of salt but what their saying is worth noting in this way simply because the Muslims also believe that their version of the Messiah who they call "Mahdi" is coming soon.

    Its interesting that all three faiths are thinking similarly.

  46. One thing I would add to this discussion:

    We know there is a war of "Gog and Magog" after the 1,000 years. That is beyond debate, because of the explicit reference in Rev. 20.

    What this means then is that those arguing Gog and Magog occurs soon necessarily have to believe in two separate wars featuring Gog and his Magog horde. Gog fights twice?

    I also observe that while we were very excited about the line up in 2015 when Russia and Iran entered Syria, the truth is that things have not continued lining up as we might expect. Sudan and Libya never came on board. Turkey is definitely not in an alliance with Russia and Iran (in fact Russia and Turkey are now shooting at each other).

    Again, I think we may see a shadow of the larger prophetic fulfillment of Ez. 38-39/Rev. 20, but the real deal is a massive ordeal with innumerable forces equipped with primitive weaponry after the 1,000 year reign of Christ.

  47. It can be overwhelming and confusing at times.
    So I put a link to The three groups (revelation, Daniel, And the Apostle Paul on the Rapture) that I have been studying for awhile.


  48. There won’t be any weapons in the MK. Why would there be?

    “And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more”. (Isaiah 2:4).

    By the time Satan is released after the 1,000 years and he prepares to make war, tanks and weapons of war won’t even be a memory. So it makes sense that horses and swords and bows and arrows would be used.

    It all makes sense. Thank you, Jeff. Another Aha masterpiece!

  49. This comment has been removed by the author.

  50. Predictions:1) Barge will go over Niagara Falls on March 4th2) Trump will die of a heart attack on March 11th3) The End Times will begin on Pentecost on June 7th, 2020
    After the barge goes over on Mar 4 make sure watch this entire videohttps://youtu.be/5PgifKlhfIk

    If the day were knowable, at this point most people would not believe anyone else anyway, and so it makes sense that this is how God would do it. He would use someone to learn His big picture of signs, and reveal these predictions ahead of time in order to prove this big picture of signs and the conclusions for the date. This is how prophecy works, and it is the reason why 1/3 of the Bible is prophecy. For God to prove the matter. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, Rev 19:10. 
    This is a link to a video that explains how it is known that the barge that has been stuck on the rocks of the Niagara River for 101 years will go over Niagara Falls on March 4th, 2020. 7 days later President Trump will die of heart attack on March 11th, 2020. These conclusions are absolutely, and inextricably tied to the following conclusions, and therefore, when these events come to pass on Mar 4 and Mar 11 this will prove certain the following other conclusions. 1) The date the End Times begins is knowable, and it is certain beyond a reasonable doubt that it will be on Pentecost on June 7th, 2020. 2) The identities of the two Antichrists are knowable, and it is certain that they are Pope Francis and Barack Obama. 3) The Lord is pouring out judgment warning signs specifically on the American evangelical church for its Nicolaitan deeds and doctrine (Calvinism and Free Grace), that Jesus said he hates in Revelation chapter 2. The nation and the world is a mess because the Church is a mess, and judgment begins with the Church. 4) The Lord's End Times signs is a big picture puzzle, in which each piece is dependent on the others pieces for their full, true intended meaning. This is why these conclusions are inextricably tied together. When these events come to pass on Mar 4 and Mar 11 this will prove that this method of interpreting the signs as a whole, rather than isolated events, is correct. Similar to how the Bible needs to be interpreted as a whole, rather than through selectively using isolated passages. If you truly love the Lord's signs, after these events come to pass I'm sure you will want to watch every minute of this long video series that explains the Lord's big picture of End Times signs. Every minute is important and mind boggling. When these events come to pass it will arguably be the most important achievement of the watching community. I believe the watching community should unite around, and focus on, getting this information out about how this was known ahead of time. God bless.

    YouTube clearlywrittendotnet


    1. Why do you think Pentecost is on June 7th, 2020 (15th of Sivan, 5780)?
      The 6th of Sivan, 5780 Shavuot I, Pentecost(is May 29, 2020.

    2. The Jewish Feast of First fruits which celebrated the promise of the full harvest yet to come. Truly a Feast of promise, and required an offering of an omer of barley flour, made from sheaves of barley from an unattended field, which had never been watered or fertilized.
      Finally, occurring fifty days after First Fruits, the feast of Pentecost is celebrated as the final day of First Fruits. This last day was a time for a new offerings of a loaf of bread, the completed product of the harvest.

  51. Put simply "The dead rising reference" has to do with Matthew 27:50-52
    Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
    Them which sleep in Jesus, God brings with Him
    Absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord.
    First Fruits is resurrection day and 40 days later is Ascension Day (Rapture Day).
    At some date in the future that day will happen is what Paul said to Watch for!!



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