Studying The Revelation 12 Sign Is Not Astrology

I want to share with you two fantastic videos from Adam at Parable of the Vineyard.  He completely dismantles any notion that looking for signs in the heavens or studying the sign of Revelation 12 is "astrology".

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  1. The humility and sweet sincerity of this man is so apparent and those qualities and the knowledge that God has given him debunks the debunkers of this Great Sign in the heavenlies and destroys their arguments of pathetic ignorance which only expose their hidden love for this world more than the escape route that God is planning for His beloved church, both now living and those who have been waiting so long for their resurection. Maranatha.

    1. Yes, I'm a big fan of Adam. Wish more prophecy teachers shared his humility.

  2. Tell that to Jan Markell and her guest Rev. Billy Crone. Here is a link to her broadcast:

    I actually went so far as to write to Jan last week over her broadcast with Rev. Crone, and here is a portion of what I wrote:

    (Link to original broadcast: http://www.olivetreeviews.org/news/headlines/item/12748-it-could-happen-today)

    * * * * *

    Dear Jan,

    I was greatly saddened to listen to your broadcast entitled "It Could Happen Any Day" with Rev. Billy Crone. Rev. Crone's characterization of those who embrace the coming eschatological fulfillment of the sign of Revelation 12:1-2 as "practicing astrology" is so egregious that I am almost at a loss for words.

    I could understand a simple disagreement in terms of its interpretation, but there is no excuse for calling those who embrace this fulfillment as scripturally sound as being guilty of what God considers a grievous sin.

    Most of us who study and discuss this sign are mature, sincere believers in the gospel who are simply being obedient to what God has revealed in these last days and are doing our utmost to inform and edify the body of Christ. We are not date setters. We don't wear tinfoil hats. We are *NOT* saying the Rapture will happen on September 23, 2017, and we sure as the dickens are not "practicing astrology," the definition of which is apparently lost on Rev. Crone.

    Are there some "flakes" out there yammering about how the Rapture will happen on September 23? Yes, sadly there are. There are always legions of misinformed Johnny-come-latelies who get bent out of shape and fly to the moon and back with unbridled speculation, and the whole group gets painted with the same brush. This is unfortunate.

    That's why it is so important to do one's homework and find out what the real story is before breaking out the voodoo dolls at the mere mention of something.

    Many of us have done that. Rev. Crone has not.

    For example, if Rev. Crone thinks the Revelation 12 sign occurs every 11 or 12 years, it tells the world he doesn't even know what the Revelation 12 sign is. It communicates with clarity that he has no clue what he is talking about. (Oh, but they're "practicing astrology.")

    And with all due respect and love in Christ, Jan, when you give your nodding acquiescence to what he says, you slip on the same pair of clueless size 7 loafers.

    Jan, I love your ministry and have followed it regularly for several years (and will continue to do so), and I have nothing but love and respect for you as a sister in Christ. But this is wrong, and I felt compelled to speak up."

    Peace in Christ,
    Greg Lauer

    * * * * *

    Here is Jan's response:

    * * * * *

    Greg, what do you see happening this Fall? All who have written or called see the Rapture and/or Tribulation starting in late-September. That is the greater question here, not the topic of astrology. I’ve lived long enough to see the ravages of date-setting. Not sure you are doing that as you don’t say. Thanks for writing respectfully. A few didn’t. ~ Jan

    * * * * *

    (To be continued...)

  3. And my response to Jan:

    * * * * *

    Hi Jan,

    Thank you for being gracious enough to take the time to respond. I know your time is valuable, and I have no wish to waste it. I can tell from the tone of your response, however, that you are assuming I am one of the legions of cowboys out there making bold, blustery predictions about the Rapture and/or Tribulation. Let me state this as clearly as words permit, because I don't want you to miss this:

    I am NOT one of the legions of cowboys out there making bold, blustery predictions about the Rapture and/or Tribulation.

    And neither are the majority of folks in the small, core group of believers at the heart of the REV12 mania that has seemingly taken on a life of its own in the last year or so. So, what do I see happening this fall? OK, I'll tell you exactly what I see happening, not just this fall, but since 2011:

    I see a paradigm shift.

    Unfortunately, paradigm shifts are often not well received by many. They shove people out of their comfort zones by forcing them to re-think some long-held ideas, and perhaps slaughter a couple of sacred cows. I am not so foolish as to sit here and spout off about how the Rapture will happen or the Tribulation will kick off on September 23 or any other particular date. But what I do see is nothing less than a paradigm shift that is not-so-subtly moving us from "It COULD happen any time (but it could be in fifty years)" to "It's GOING TO happen any time (and it looks like it's going to be very soon, so look up!").

    I believe the primary sticking point for many sincere believers is the doctrine of imminence (which I fully agree is 100 percent biblical). They hear these young whippersnappers yammering about a certain date, and jerk goes the knee:

    "What's wrong with you date-setting dimwits?! Haven't you ever heard of the doctrine of imminence?! Hmph. The Rapture is a signless event! What part of 'signless' is confusing to you?!"

    * * * * *

    (To be continued...)

  4. Jan, I have struggled to come up with an apt metaphor for what I see happening these days, and here's the best I've come up with so far:

    Picture the Church as a bus full of fifth-graders taking a class trip to Disneyland. We set out on our journey two thousand years ago, and the teachers on the bus told us they didn't know how long it would take to get there, but it could be very soon. They urged us to bring some homework to stay busy, but to be prepared to arrive at any moment. As our bus has traveled along the Imminence Turnpike, some of the children slept; some fought and threw spitballs at each other; and surprisingly enough, some actually sat quietly and did their homework. Some would look out the windows of the bus from time to time, hoping to see a sign that said "Disneyland," but all they saw were signs that reminded them they were on the Imminence Turnpike.

    Suddenly, a bit of a commotion catches one of the teacher's attention. Several students sitting together on the right side of the bus have their noses pressed against the window, and are excitedly pointing and chattering about something. What they see up ahead is a sign, and on that sign it says:

    Disneyland -- next right.

    The children are beside themselves with excitement--they know it won't be long now! They are almost there, for real! Of course, they still don't know exactly when they will arrive. They don't know exactly how much longer it will be or how much further it is. But they know without a shadow of a doubt that they are about to arrive at the destination they have been anxiously looking forward to for two thousand years, and they are squirming with excitement because they know they really are almost there!

    Some children look out the left side of the bus, and see nothing...just more signs for the Imminence Turnpike. Other children continue to sleep. Some continue to throw spitballs. Some continue to quietly do their homework.

    But those few children have caught a glimpse of the exit sign--and every teacher on the bus is telling them to sit down and be quiet and reaching for a switch to give them a whipping for disobeying the rules and disturbing the other children on the bus. But as for the children who have spotted the sign, they know. They know it's no longer a matter of "We COULD get there any time." Now it's "We're GOING TO get there any time, and the time is really soon!

    I am one of those kids, with my nose pressed against the window. I and many others who interact with the Revelation 12 sign are simply trying to get people to see that this is a real thing. It's not something that someone dreamed up. It's not tinfoil hat stuff. We're not deluded nutjobs. And for crying out loud, we are most certainly not sinning against God by practicing astrology! All we want to do is tell anyone with ears to hear that Revelation 12:1-2 is going to see its final, eschatological fulfillment on September 23, 2017. And when you understand the details of this fulfillment, it is quite clear that verses 3-5 follow in relatively short order. Anyway you slice it, God is telling us loud and clear that we are staring down the barrels of the grand finale.

    Do the two signs in verses 1-5 include a *depiction* of the pre-tribulation Rapture? Yes, absolutely.

    Does that mean it must *coincide* with the Rapture? No.

    Is it a sign that we are entering into the *season* of the Rapture? I believe that's exactly what it is. An exit sign, if you will.

    The sign, and I mean mega sign, just as John describes it, is real, and the doctrine of imminence that God knew we would need to get us this far is beginning to take a back seat to the reality that we are nearly there. For two thousand years, we have (correctly) believed the Rapture was a signless event. But it wasn't a signless event because there was no sign--it was a signless event because God didn't reveal the sign.

    But all that changed in 2011.

    * * * * *

    (To be continued...)

    1. Regarding the doctrine of imminence - I think that the way that it is typically understood is incorrect. People like to say that the rapture could have happened at any point in the past thousand years, but is that really true? In Revelation 2 and 3 Jesus gave John seven letters to seven churches. Every premillennial teacher I have ever seen has interpreted those as offering a prophetic overview of the entire church era.

      If that is true, then that means the rapture could not possibly happen until we reached the final church era - the age of Laodicea. After all, if the rapture happened a thousand years ago then numerous letters would remain unfulfilled. At the very least the rapture had to wait until we reached the age of Laodicea. Therefore the rapture was never really signless - we were always waiting on something. The rapture may have been signless before Revelation, but once Revelation was given there were some concrete boundaries put in place.

  5. Jan, I am not trying to "convert" you into a Revelation 12 sign supporter. I have no such illusions because you have made your position clear, and I respect your right to your opinion. So be it--I love you anyway. That's not even the reason I wrote to you to begin with.

    It was nice that you attempted to politely pivot away from the accusations of astrology, but the fact remains. Rev. Crone owes a substantial number of your listeners an apology for making such an outrageously false, insulting accusation. To falsely and inaccurately accuse a group of sincere brothers and sisters in Christ who are simply doing their job in studying and rightly dividing God's Word and paying attention to what God is revealing to anyone with ears to hear and then seeking to inform and edify the body of Christ with what they have been shown of committing one of the most grievous sins in the entire Bible? Really? Where did *that* come from?

    Oh, and then in the next breath tell people to look for signs in the sun and moon instead--which, of course, is clearly *not* astrology, for some reason. Is it *possible* for a person to be more hypocritical?

    And I didn't hear a peep of disagreement coming from you--which tells your audience loud and clear that you agree with him.

    You know, I understand that you run a high-profile ministry and all that, and when you have a guest on your program you want to be gracious and maintain a certain decorum and so forth. I know you don't want to seem argumentative or nitpicking or split hairs over semantics and whatnot. So, you might not necessarily agree with every little detail your guest says, but refrain from saying something that contradicts the person. I get that.

    I may be a nobody, but I'm not a naive nobody.

    But this is way beyond semantics--this is inexcusable.

    Jan, I love you and your anointed ministry that has touched so many people with the message of salvation that is found only in Jesus Christ and tons of invaluable information on the signs of the times and of His soon return. I pray that God would bring in many more precious Jewish believers like yourself. But I feel compelled to simply put this to you:

    Because of your apparent tacit agreement with Rev. Crone's insultingly vile and inaccurate accusations, I feel you owe a good number of your listeners an apology as well. I'm not going to bother to write to Rev. Crone--he's shown the world what he is about, and I have little doubt I would be wasting my time. I took the step of writing to you instead of Rev. Crone because (a) well, it's your program, but more importantly, (b) I think you're better than that. I've followed your ministry long enough that I sincerely believe you had no intention of insulting anyone in any way, but I'm telling you, Jan.

    You did.

    P.S. You say you've lived long enough to see the "ravages of date-setting." I take that to mean you need no reminder of the pitiable victims who sold homes, quit jobs, abandoned career plans, liquidated financial holdings, cashed in kids' college funds, and generally made real-world plans to vacate the real world after being taken in by a horrifically deceived individual like Harold Camping. Or Edgar Whisenant. Or (fill in the blank with the deluded, self-appointed "prophet" of your choosing).

    Nor do I, Jan. Nor do I.

    Peace in Christ,
    Greg Lauer

    * * * * *

    That was the last I heard from her, so I assume she has written me off.

    Oh well. I did my best to at least let her know how some of us feel about what she and others are promulgating.

    My next article will have more to say about what I wrote to Jan, so stay tuned.

    1. Well said, Greg. I think you planted a good seed though. Perhaps she'll be stewing on this.

      I know feelings are unreliable, but I have a hunch or hope that a few bigger ministries may jump on board in the last few weeks if anything seems to align. Perhaps something happens on Aug. 21st to wake some sleepers up. Perhaps a peace agreement comes to fruition at the end of the Summer.

      I'll tell you though, I think we're seeing with our own eyes the prophecy of Jesus coming like a thief to those not watching. The blood moons made numerous national headlines, but barely anything of the Sep. 23 sign and we're now just 4 months away.

      The Church is largely asleep... just as expected.

  6. Well done....I, too, listened to that broadcast, and it was particularly offensive. It sounds like pastor Crone would have made a great member of the Sanhedrin. I loved the part where he mentions "signs in the Sun & Moon"without addressing the obvious.
    I will give her show a couple of tries, but that really sat wrong with me.....not saying we're right, but with one dismissive swoop, we were all labeled kooks.

    Also, great letter!



  7. FWIW Greg (and to be clear)....I think this sign points to a paradigm shift as well. I think it marks the point that God shifts his focus from the church, back to Israel. Yes, I believe the rapture could be closely tied to the sign, and I lean to the rapture occurring prior to the sign, but I may be totally wrong. I think the sign has the potential to be a dual sign. If we were raptured today, the sign would point BACK to our rapture while pointing forward to the 70th week (and specifically Israel's, or the remnant's protection in that 70th week). With the great delusion that will be released (or is I process already)....the sign would help explain the real reason for the sudden disappearance of untold numbers....again, I could be totally off base in all that.
    Also, if this sign were strictly a past sign, what do we do with verse 6? When has Israel been carried off to the wilderness to be protected for 1260 days? The sign points to the past, as well as the future....in my opinion. Again, I reserve the right to be wrong on this, and I am not saying that anything is going to happen in a particular date. However, to borrow from your bus analogy.....I think the blinker is on and the bus is slowing down for the exit.


  8. I, like you, reserve the right to be wrong--and I frequently am! =:)

    You could be right about the Rapture actually preceding the sign...and then the sign being something that points people back to the truth of God's Word. An astronomical testimony, as it were.

    And with so much chatter about September 23 out there, it would sure be "at an hour when ye think not"! =8o

    As it stands, I have a tendency to think the sign will precede the Rapture by some unknown length of time...perhaps months, maybe longer (but I doubt it). The thing is, God revealed this sign to us in 2011 after two thousand years...if the Rapture were still several years away, there's no logical reason why God would have revealed the REV12 sign when He did.

    In other words, when you finally see the exit sign, you know the exit isn't another 15 miles down the road, you know what I'm saying? You're coming right up on it. And people are rapidly either embracing the REV12 sign and checking their spiritual armor and spreading the word, or they're rejecting it and going into denial. Lines are being drawn, and it's disheartening to see how many mainstream ministers with reputations to protect are doing the latter.

    1. One truly striking fact about the Revelation 12 sign is how quiet it has been. In the past things like the blood moons and Harold Camping were broadcast far and wide - books were written, and even the secular press got in on it. In Revelation 12 we have a claim that is far easier to prove and much more sensational, and one hardly hears a peep about it. It's barely making any waves at all in the usual circles, and those who do write about it are largely dismissing it. I only found out about it because I was so astonished at all the 2017 date coincidences that were lining up and so I specifically searched for 2017 rapture theories.

      I think this is one of the strongest points in its favor. For such a strong, sensational, and easy-to-understand claim to be this ignored - to generate practically no attention, books, etc. - tells me that there is something important going on here. It is so easy to sell this, and yet people are going out of their way to NOT sell it - to ignore it and push it under the rug. You have to ask: why is that happening? Why aren't people having a field day here? I've seen the arguments against this sign, and they're just lousy.

      When Christ came the first time, the signs were all there but very few people were watching and almost no one noticed - and few saw it coming. I always thought that when He returned it for us it would be the same sort of situation. I expected the real sign to be something that most people ignored or never noticed. That is exactly what I'm seeing with Revelation 12. It really makes me sit up and pay attention.

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    3. Glory to YHWH!, Thank you Jonathan - A brother in Yeshua.

    4. Greg....I agree on the importance of the Rev 12 sign. That's my whole point as well. I'm not saying the rapture will happen before (leaning towards that) or after, I'm saying that BECAUSE the sign is occurring, that it must be very close. This one sign has half of a chapter devoted to it....no other sign has that much attention, aside from the star of Bethlehem. Now, if the 9/23 alignment isn't the fulfillment of the sign, then that's another story. Either way, I'm not using the stars to plan my day or guide my life....just viewing them from a biblical perspective, and to me, if this is the sign, it's importance is huge.

    5. Yes, the quietness with this is eerie and telling. You would think that if this was NOT the real Revelation 12 Sign then satan would do everything in his power to trumpet this thing in the media, so that when the time passed and nothing happened a whole lot of Believers would look like fools.

      Y2K, 2012, and Blood Moons were ALL OVER THE NEWS. Yet when it comes to the Revelation 12 Sign, a sign actually contained in the Bible and described in great detail, the media is virtually silent (aside from the WaPo interview I did).

    6. I totally agree. The evidence is overwhelming and the silence deafening!

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    1. That's a good idea. Have you taken a look at our forum? http://unsealed.boards.net/

    2. Brothers and Sisters,

      I'd like to present you another possible Jewish feast connected to the rapture: Pentecost (celebrated by the Christian world according to the solar calendar,) and its "Jewish version" aka the Feast of Weeks, also named Shavuot (celebrated by Jews, according to their lunar calendar) Pentecost is associated with harvest (among other important things which are connected to the Church)! Also, Enoch (a "pre-type" of the Church) was born and raptured (too!) at Pentecost according to Jewish tradition. Of course what I'm about to say is just speculation but I could imagine a timeline where the Rapture happens THIS Pentecost (either at the Jewish feast of Shavuot or on the Christian world celebrated date, both will happen during the same week (on the 31th of May-1th of June the Jewish one, on the 4th -5th of June the Christian one). So, that way the Rev 12 Sign at the end of September could point back to the Rapture as Lance said OR it could point toward next Pentecost in 2018. Again this is pure speculation on my part, don't get me wrong please! In my opinion Pentecost is a good candidate among the Jewish feasts (as good as the Feast of Trumpets) IF the Rapture will happen on a Jewish feast day.

    3. I was looking up information on Pentecost / Shavuot. I find it very interesting. I'm not entirely satisfied that the coming of the Holy Spirit fulfilled this feast. Did you know they often wear white and kids will make "crowns" of flowers to wear? I'm listening for that trumpet every day, but a feast day fulfillment sure makes sense to me. Which feast? Only God knows.

    4. Personally, I have long been a fan of "Raptecost" over "Raptashanah," but of course I refuse to be dogmatic about it. The Raptashanah juggernaut seems to have won the day in most prophecy circles, but I have addressed the very point you mention, Natalie. I am not convinced that the Feast of Weeks/Shavuot was completely fulfilled on the day of Pentecost two thousand years ago, and not necessarily personally and directly by Jesus Himself as with all six of the other feasts (three past, three future).

      For example, I agree with many people that Jesus Himself will personally fulfill every feast. That's clearly true with the first three (Passover, Unleavened Bread, and Firstfruits), and certainly will be with the last three (Trumpets, Atonement, and Tabernacles).

      But what's the deal with Pentecost? Many will say that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. *THAT'S* what Jesus did. And John 15:28 says just that.

      Oh, but what's this...John 14:26 says the *Father* will send the Holy Spirit. Well, which is it? And in John 14:16 it says the Father will *give* the Holy Spirit. What's up with that? I talk about this in more detail here:


      Long story short, the two different Greek verbs used in the above verses (translated "send" and "give") can *both* be used in a passive sense, as in "to allow or permit to go." So, it sorta knocks the legs out from under the idea that Jesus personally and directly sent the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, thus personally and directly fulfilling that feast.

      On the other hand, is it not possible that the Feast of Pentecost has not yet reached its final fulfillment, but *will* when Jesus catches His Church up to be with Him? Now *that's* what I call personal and direct.

      And is it not possible that the Second Coming fulfills the Feast of Trumpets, the judgments that follow on its heels to determine who will be ushered into the kingdom (think Ten Virgins/Sheep and Goats, neither of which have zip to do with the Church) fulfill the Feast of Atonement, and the Millennial Kingdom fulfills the Feast of Tabernacles?

      Ain't gonna argue about it, but it *is* food for thought.

    5. Thanks for your thoughts, Greg. I've been having many of the same thoughts. All of this is definitely much food for thought and has me talking to God, meditating on His word, and searching the Scriptures for His truth. Always a good thing!

  10. My exuberance for Astronomical alignments "signs" and God's word is usually not normal for most typical church goers. Most wonderful but ignorant members of an average congregation who are glued to the latest fad on facebook; easily categorize stars and celestial events as "Astrology-stuff".

    If its "astrology-stuff" then most church goers will categorize all celestial events as "irrelevant-mumbo-jumbo". With all the hoopla since 2011, Elenin, Sept. 23 last year, The Simpsons, The four blood moons - nothing happened. To be honest, it appears nobody really cares about this alignment. However, their will be a few of us not asleep on the bus as "Greg. L" has pointed out.

    My friends their is storm coming and are you asleep at the wheel? Btw, I love Thunder and Lighting. I get "goosebumps" just thinking about it.

    Jonah 1:6 "...What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not."

  11. I can feel it in my spirit that we are getting closer to meeting The King of Kings. I so excited, yet part of me is afraid to get my hopes up too high only to have nothing happen within the next year and be around for a few more years. ooh I am so conflicted. Please Lord Jesus give me the clarity to see Your Will either way.

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  14. Based on the logic of some of those who are accusing us of astrology, the 3 wise men recognizing the star that heralded Jesus' birth (and following it on a long road for a long time until they reached their destination in Betlehem) could be also accused of practicing astrology.

  15. It is plain to see now that you have adequately proven your point re Rev12, and I believe we need to focus now more closely on what this event may now look like on earth, so our warnings to believers can be more aligned with how it is going to personally affect them.

    Firstly – I don’t believe the possible alignment of Galatians 4 with Rev12 has been looked at closely in any of these posts, however I believe there are some remarkable prophetic alignments with Rev12 and the Nation of Israel. Due to word restrictions, I will make this brief:
    - Revelation 12:2 ‘She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth’. Galatians 4:19 – ‘My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you.’ Could the birth be indicative of the beginning of Israels national salvation (as Christ is formed in you post birth), one that comes to full national repentance mid-week.
    - Revelation 12:5 ‘She gave birth to a son, a male child’. Galations 4:1’Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave…, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set (NOTE THESE WORDS) by the father. This carries on with interesting insight through to vs 11.
    - Regarding Israel and her child: Galatians 4:21-31, in particular – where it notes talks about the two covenants; that represented by those who keep the law, and those saved by grace, so to speak. However some of the language could also be prophetic to todays circumstances. Firstly, v24 states ‘One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present City of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children’. To make it clear, God is speaking about Hagar representing the law that was given on Mount Sinai, and God notes that this ‘corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children’. Now Israel is still in bondage to Mount Sinai, and has been the last 2 thousand years due to the rejection of the Messiah. Now while we know this is spiritual, if we also took a physical application, Jerusalem became ‘the present city of Jerusalem’, not only in the times of Christ, but again in 1967 when Jerusalem was reclaimed after two thousand years. Israel remains in bondage to the law, which aligns with the current city of Jerusalem. Interesting to note also that it is not only in bondage to the law, but literally to the physical descendants of Hagar, the Arab muslims (temple mount). However the next verse is very interesting (v26), “but the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother”. The text switches from physical/spiritual to a spiritual/physical Jerusalem (in terms of priority). To be free, one must first be released from the bondage of the law. This is given in two circumstances: salvation, and the jubilee year. Is it possible that the 21 Sept Revelation12 sign will coincide with Jerusalem becoming ‘spiritual’ 50 years after the physical restoration of Jerusalem, with a revival of significance taking place among the Jews soon after Satan bringing his sudden persecution against Israel. While I still hold fast to the ‘national repentance’ of Israel taking place mid tribulation, there could be an ‘Acts’ type scenario, similar to a multitude of Jews becoming believers prior to the 70Ad temple destruction, which may well be expanded in significance mid-trib.

    1. forgot to mention that Galatians 4:27-31 also gives some possible clues as to the second half of Rev12, namely 'who' will persecute the new believers (Hagars offspring through the devil), and it is interesting to note that in vs 30, the bondwoman and her son were 'cast out'...again interesting alignment of language from Galatians 4 to Rev12...


    2. I think if Jan and the Reverend can understand the difference between Astrology (i.e. believing your future can be predicted according to the Zodiac) and astronomy, which is the science of studying the heavenly bodies and their movements within the universe, just as the Magi (3 wise men) have done and Galileo, Copernicus etc, then we can clear up a lot of confusion...

  16. BILLY CRONE was on Prophecy Watchers with GARY STERMAN a week ago and he said the same JUNK on his show that he said on JAN'S show,,,,GARY received so much negative feedback that I think he removed the video,,,,and GARY was nodding his head yes also like JAN was....so JAN GARY and JOEL R. are not up to speed,,,and others like JACK VAN IMPE,,, HAL LINDSEY,,PERRY STONE,,,JIM BAKKER ,,,I have not heard from on the REV.CH.12 VS.1 to happen on SEPT.23 2017,,,THIS IS NOT DATE SETTING ,,,IT IS DATE DISCOVERING

  17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbnYIyAnkL0




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