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I'll take “Apostasia” for $1,000,000 please, Alex.

Used with permission, by Thomas D. Ice

The Answer

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, —2 Thessalonians 2:3

    I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated "apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated "departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.


    The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, "that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia) Moses." The word is a Greek compound of apo "from" and istemi "stand." Thus, it has the core meaning of "away from" or "departure." The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines apostasia first as "defection, revolt;" then secondly as "departure, disappearance." Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following: 


The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).

    "It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, "that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure." Paul Lee Tan adds the following: 

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that "the falling away" (2 Thess. 2:3) must come before the tribulation? The definite article "the" denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for "falling away", taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean "to fall," as the Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of the word is "to depart." The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls "the departure," and which will occur just before the start of the tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.

    So the word has the core meaning of departure and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as departure from the faith. 


    The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either "departure" or "departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608).5 This supports the notion that the word truly means "departure." In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of A.D. 400 renders apostasia with the "word discessio, meaning 'departure.'" Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure"? 

    Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as "falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as "departure." No good reason was ever given. 


    It is important to note that Paul uses a definite article with the noun apostasia. What does this mean? Davey notes the following: 

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article reference is being made to something in particular. In II Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

    Dr. Lewis provides a likely answer when he notes that the definite article serves to make a word distinct and draw attention to it. In this instance he believes that its purpose is "to denote a previous reference." "The departure Paul previously referred to was 'our being gathered to him' (2 Thess. 1:1) and our being 'caught up' with the Lord and the raptured dead in the clouds (1 Thess. 4:17)," notes Dr. Lewis. The "departure" was something that Paul and his readers clearly had a mutual understanding about. Paul says in verse 5, "Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?"

    The use of the definite article would also support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernable event. A physical departure, like the rapture would fit just such a notion. However, the New Testament teaches that apostasy had already arrived in the first century (cf. Acts 20:27-32; 1 Tim. 4:1-5; 2 Tim. 3:1-9; 2 Pet. 2:1-3; Jude 3-4, 17-21) and thus, such a process would not denote a clear event as demanded by the language of this passage. Understanding departure as the rapture would satisfy the nuance of this text. E. Schuyler English explains as follows: 

Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on earth when it does come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time began.

    Whatever Paul is referring to in his reference to "the departure," was something that both the Thessalonian believers and he had discussed in-depth previously. When we examine Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, he never mentions the doctrine of apostasy, however, virtually every chapter in that epistle speaks of the rapture (cf. 2 Thess. 1:9–10; 2 Thess. 2:19; probably 2 Thess. 3:13;  2 Thess. 4:13–17; 2 Thess. 5:1–11). In these passages, Paul has used a variety of Greek terms to describe the rapture. It should not be surprising that he uses another term to reference the rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Dr. House tells us: 

Remember, the Thessalonians had been led astray by the false teaching (2 Thess. 2:2–3) that the Day of the Lord had already come. This was confusing because Paul offered great hope, in the first letter, of a departure to be with Christ and a rescue from god’s wrath. Now a letter purporting to be from Paul seems to say that they would first have to go through the Day of the Lord. Paul then clarified his prior teaching by emphasizing that they had no need to worry. They could again be comforted because the departure he had discussed in his first letter, and in his teaching while with them, was still the truth. The departure of Christians to be with Christ, and the subsequent revelation of the lawless one, Paul argues, is proof that the Day of the Lord had not begun as they had thought. This understanding of apostasia makes much more sense than the view that they are to be comforted (v. 2) because a defection from the faith must precede the Day of the Lord. The entire second chapter (as well as 1 Thess. 4:18; 1 Thess. 5:11) serves to comfort (see vv. 2, 3, 17), supplied by a reassurance of Christ’s coming as taught in his first letter.


    Since pretribulationists believe that the restrainer mentioned in verses 2 Thess. 2:6 and  2 Thess. 2:7 is the Holy Spirit and teaches a pre-trib rapture, then it should not be surprising to see that there is a similar progression of thought in the progression of verse 3. Allan MacRae, president of Faith Theological Seminary in a letter to Schuyler English has said the following concerning this matter: 

I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and verses 7–8, a little further down. According to your suggestion verse 3 mentions the departure of the church as coming first, and then tells of the revealing of the man of sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the identical sequence. Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: "And then shall that Wicked be revealed." Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of "departure," while a superficial examination would easily lead to an erroneous interpretation as "falling away" because of the proximity of the mention of the man of sin.

    Kenneth Wuest, a Greek scholar from Moody Bible Institute added the following contextual support to taking apostasia as a physical departure: 

But then hee apostasia of which Paul is speaking, precedes the revelation of Antichrist in his true identity, and is to katechon that which holds back his revelation (2:6). The hee apostasia, therefore, cannot be either a general apostasy in Christendom which does precede the coming of Antichrist, nor can it be the particular apostasy which is the result of his activities in making himself the alone object of worship. Furthermore, that which holds back his revelation (vs. 3) is vitally connected with hoo katechoon (vs. 7), He who holds back the same event. The latter is, in my opinion, the Holy Spirit and His activities in the Church. All of which means that I am driven to the inescapable conclusion that the hee apostasia (vs. 3) refers to the Rapture of the Church which precedes the Day of the Lord, and holds back the revelation of the Man of Sin who ushers in the world-aspect of that period.


    The fact that apostasia most likely has the meaning of physical departure is a clear support for pretribulationism. If this is true, (Dr. Tim LaHaye and I believe that it is), then it means that a clear prophetic sequence is laid out by Paul early in his Apostolic ministry. Paul teaches in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the rapture will occur first, before the Day of the Lord commences. It is not until after the beginning of the Day of the Lord that the Antichrist is released, resulting in the events described by him in chapter 2 of 2 Thessalonians. This is the only interpretation that provides hope for a discomforted people. Maranatha! 

The Question

What is the Rapture, Harpazo, or Caught Up?

Personal Notes:

Could it be as simple as perspective?


Ice, Thomas. “The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3” Is The Rapture In 2 Thessalonians 2:3? Tom's Perspectives, May 2009, digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1081&context=pretrib_arch. Accessed 26 April 2021.

Tommy Ice YouTube Videos:

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Post A Comment


  1. Now don't y'all go slapping me around, I used to believe the pre trib rapture. As these past years I've stepped back and tried to really study the rapture. I looked at Matthew 24 hard. Chapter 6 of Revelation and Daniel. From what I find from the Olivet Discourse Jesus told us the time line and I think it follows all seven seals. If we look at Matthew 24:9 Revelation 6:11 and Revelation 12:17 we see the persecution of the saints. Are Jews saints? Thing is for me it's not till Revelation ch 7 before we see the multitude before the throne. As we look at Mathew 24:10 there is a falling away from the faith and I believe it's due to great persecution. Are we willing to die for Christ? If there is a pre trib rapture fantastic, but like in the book of Daniel the church will make herself ready by being refined in the fire. Bless you all let's keep searching the scripture.

    1. Consider that Revelation 12:17 are tribulation saints and not the Body of Christ that was Caught Up. They are not the 24 elders. If you believe 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, you are in the group of the 24 elders ;) Also Consider this is a group is wearing different clothes. Notice trib saints wear robes while a different group of people in Revelation 3:5 are clothed in white raiment, look up the Greek words for the 2, and they are different, and they follow the same thread through Revelation to show that they are in fact different groups of people. Peace be with you Brent ;)

    2. It’s true there will also be hearts growing cold, many offended by our gospel, but the conditions of the last times described in Paul’s letter to Timothy does not also exclude the rapture. The definite events marched out in 2 Thessalonians likewise do not negate the spiritually vile state of the last days. They are both true, the mystery to be solved here is which one is Paul speaking of in context of the surrounding verses and the letters as a whole. That’s the case being presented here. Also, in Rev 12:17 the group were seeing are the “loipos”, quite literally the remaining ones, or left ones, as contrasted with the man-child(Church body and head Christ united) of 12:5 and the woman, Israel. The loipos are most likely trib Saints. If you’d like, I could send you a more detailed study on the topic.

    3. Spot on Brent! If I have an incorrect view and the rapture comes before the Trib, then I was wrong and will be all the more joyful about it. However from the plain reading of text, I no longer see the resurrection as happening before the man of sin is revealed. It seems clear to me that it is sometime after the 6th seal.

    4. Brent it's because you are not rightly dividing and read what is addressed to the Jews.

    5. zztopless - this is the type of statement that divides Christians as it accuses and frankly is divisive in tone and violates the theme here on Unsealed. We've put members in 'time-out' for doing this...

      Your view is pre-Trib and while I or Brent or someone else may not agree with that view, none of us have it accurate until it happens. Saying he (or I by extension) is not dividing the word properly is not in the spirit of unity when discussing this subject. Please be open to the other views and if you havent studied them, consider doing so in order to be more effective in your message to other brothers.

    6. Hey Mike I think you should be more inclusive of the views of others such as zztopless. You dont' seem to mind that Brent Lohrenz came out accusing people of slapping him around.
      Christ came onto His own, HE did not come on to the Gentiles. Frankly your admonishing of zztopless sounds very worldly and reeks of relativism. There is the TRUTH and all else are lies. Either the Rapture is true or it isn't. The Apostile Paul was clear when he rebuked and corrected others and he did so to divide right from wrong.

    7. Thors Huns Did I say something that excluded whatever view you are claiming zztopless has? (NO) zztopless view was not presented in the short reply, which happens to violate the rules of the forum on the discussion side of the site. Perhaps you are not familiar with the rules here? Or maybe Gary has them set a little different on this part of the site compared to the discussion area? (Probably not)
      Brent asked not to be slapped around as he was once a pre-trib thinker. Wonder why he preface his comment with that? Maybe he can answer. Despite asking that he was accused of not dividing the word properly. Brent simply having a view that is not pre-trib does not mean he does not rightly divide. And neither he nor I said that zztopless or others were not rightly dividing.

      Saying that my response is "Worldly and reeks of relativism" - you clearly dont know me, nor I you so go easy on the accusations. Those that are Christs need not bicker and fight over this topic, we need to unite. If Ive offended you I apologize, as it was not my intent. My intent is to help conversations remain peaceable between believers who follow Him in spirit and truth. Demanding the rapture happens before the tribulation is not truth, but speculation. There are good arguments for it, and there are good arguments against it. One day we will know for sure.

      I fully believe in the rapture, again Im not sure where you would think I said there wasnt one. However it is the resurrection that comes first, then the rapture. In very short form some of those like me see only one resurrection to life, and one to death. This is truly the main point that caused me to rethink the pre-trib theory. Pre-Trib is not fact, it is a theory. the rapture is a future fact that happens after the resurrection of the dead to life.

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  3. Today on 4/27/21, just prior to 
    6 am EST, I woke up and realized I just had a dream about Joey from the sitcom Friends, was dead.

    The name Joey means God Will Increase/Add (children). But since Joey was dead, it could mean He is done adding, and possibly the Ark is shut and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

    Yesterday, began the 2nd Passover.
     Jesus was crucified on Passover. He said, "It is Finished."

    Yesterday, there was a Full Pink Supermooon. Pink means love and compassion. 

    PLEASE do NOT stop trying to bring others to the Lord because of my dream. It's just speculation, and pretty interesting. 🤔

    1. Interesting unknown; I awoke this morning with a dream I was having that was weird. The world was desolate, looting, chaos, etc. I remember hearing to rams horns, but recall it was if it was a couple down the street. I have all morning been trying to figure out what it meant. is there going to be desolence and chaos just prior to the call of the horn blasts??? with your dream, I am curious if it was a horn blast announcing no more shall enter??? hmmm... I feel as if we are ever closer, at the door.... moments more of waiting, perhaps we truly could see a Pentecost or just prior call home.... eagerly awaiting.

      see you soon!

    2. Have you seen what Barry Awe is finding for 2nd Passover? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChIhQgocSV49rGf00dD52hQ

  4. I've heard good folks on both sides argue this, but either way there's plenty of other texts that make me a Pre-Trib believer. I watched videos of Dr. Ice, and heard others like JD Farag teach it's a "Departure" as well. I lean strongly in it being that. Hopefully, we'll find out real soon, after we make our departure. 😊 Thanks Matthew!

    1. Thank you for reading. The case is strong. Also you see the picture at the bottom explaining perspective location?

    2. Matthew, what do you mean about the picture at the bottom explaining perspective location? The location of what and what picture are you referring to? Sorry, I'm a little confused.

    3. So, you notice verse 1 is talking about a gathering, right? That is from Jesus's point of view. From our point of view it would be a departure. The Gathering and the Departure is the same event.

  5. I have translated this article into Dutch, I hope you don´t mind. If it is not ok, I will remove it from my website. However here in the Netherlands not many people believe in the pre-trib doctrine. So, I hope this article make it a bit more clearer.

    1. You need to email Tommy Ice to get permission. We cannot give extended permission. Email them a link to your websites article and ask them ;)

    2. His contact info: https://www.calvary.edu/dr-tommy-ice/

    3. Tommy said you have permission, just email him a link to your website.

    4. Can you also post a link here, we would like to see it also ;)

    5. I had already ask for permission and emailed a link to him. But thanks for your effort for asking for me. I appreciate it.
      The link to the article on my website is:

    6. This comment has been removed by the author.

  6. It is a strong case... but if I lean any more in that direction I'll fall over. Maybe I'm just afraid to commit to being 100%. 🤔

  7. It is my understanding that the Catholic Church did not believe in the Rapture, only the Second Coming. Is it possible that the KJV translators changed the "Day of the Lord" to the "Day of Christ", and the "Departure" to the "falling away, so as to agree with the RCC?

    1. You have ears to hear and eyes to see ;) thank you for reading the article. Trivia question: what Bible did the pilgrims bring with them when they landed?

      Many of the early settlers in America from England came seeking religious freedom. The Pilgrims arrived in 1620 and brought with them the Geneva Bible, not the King James Bible. The KJV was seen as the Bible of the English King and the state Church of England which had been persecuting them.

    2. I wouldn't be so quick to say that Day of Christ is mistranslated. The Byzantine text type has Day of Christ as well as the Codex Claromontanus. The Alexandrian texts on the other hand do illustrate 'Lord.' I don't think older texts necessarily mean better either, as the Alexandrian texts have several inspired scriptures omitted. I will admit that Day of the Lord seems more compelling to me at this time, but the Greek is controversial with this passage. 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 is something I have yet to hold confidence in. Lord or Christ, departure or apostasy? Sigh. I'm glad at the very least, that my belief in the pretribulation rapture does not hinge on this.

    3. @Glenn, you are correct, the main thing is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 ;)

  8. youtube: 1335 Days - Rapture Sign ? ? ? Israel's 73rd Birthday and Shavuot / Pentacost 2021
    (note the comment pinned at the top of this youtube ) - it is interesting -

    TW Tramms book - Summer is Near - is very good and readable.

    Love this: No Baggage Allowed - Let's Fly Soon - Hopefully for Pentacost 2021 sometime between May 18th and June 20th (Orthodox Pentacost).

  9. and in 2 Thess 2:2 the Greek interlinear shows the word to be "the Day of the Lord" and KJV reports it as the Day of Christ - see the interlinear -


    The Day of the Lord can have a different connotation as it very well may refer to the Tribulation...

    I also agree that it is significant that before the word apostasia is a definite article in Greek - THE DEPARTURE - must come first...

    and it is also an excellent point about the first six English translation...

    Come Lord Jesus Come...Hopefully this year...Hopefully the Pentacost Season...

    Only God knows for sure...

  10. Related only in the most tangential sense... but have you been keeping up with what’s going on with Israeli politics? Another, perhaps more flammable constitutional crisis, as Netanyahu scrapes and digs to remain in power... and “relevant”. It’s truly astonishing. Just because another new election hasn’t been called for yet, doesn’t mean the house isn’t on fire. This is a train wreck. And in fact, I’m not sure what yet another election would accomplish.



  11. At https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1428134/eu-army-news-latest-european-union-Baerbock-angela-merkel-putin-nord-stream-2:

    "EU Army warning: Candidate to replace Merkel demands 'serious steps' taken – huge backlash

    THE GREEN Party leader that could succeed Angela Merkel as Chancellor of Germany has called for serious "steps towards" creating a European Army.

    By Brian McGleenon

    PUBLISHED: 13:54, Mon, Apr 26, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:35, Mon, Apr 26, 2021"

    This is a giant step in the formation of the Revived Roman Empire.

    At https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210427-french-generals-cause-backlash-with-civil-war-warning "French generals cause backlash with 'civil war' warning".

    In France there were rumours about a coup d'etat by the French military. Is it possible that these 10 kings of the Revived Roman Empire and the antichrist as the 11e king will come to power by military coup d'etats?

  12. Great article! I look forward to our apostisia! I hope for, pray for, it to be soon!


    ἀποστασία is a departure or perhaps better reflected in the idea of being moved to a new location or leaving from a previous standing as HELPS Word-studies puts it.

    This debate reminds me so much of Jesus' question, "Who do you say I am?"

    The question tugs at the heart of our faith walk and begs us to dig deeper in search of treasure and truth.

    Thank you Matthew for sharing this article! So very timely especially as we near the day we remember the aliyah of the Lord,

    9 And when he had said these
    things, as they were looking on,
    he was lifted up, and a cloud
    took him out of their sight.

    (Acts 1:9 ESV)

    Omer Day 40 is right around the corner.

  14. not related to article, but wanted to share encourage all to see this video. I have shared several times over the years, It just moves me. I feel it is a great visual to How God created us, gave us free will, allowed us to make choices that took us away from Him, yet he was still there, still reaching out HIs hand, as we continue to get further and further away, even to the point of rock bottom, He is there waiting for us to reach back to Him, and He is there pulling us back as we reach, and then He even battles the demons for us when we can't fight anymore and He picks us up, dusts us off and restores us back to Him. THAT my friends is pure love. God IS love. I just love this video, and think everyone should see it.

    If the Hyperlink below does not work, it is shared on my FB, or you can search FB for Lifehouse Everything video.


  15. I'm pondering the various meanings of "red". Just spitballing ideas here.

    The Dragon is red. The Whore has red hair and rides a red beast. Then there's the Red Sea. Mars is the red planet. Marx means "of the god of war," and communists are reds. Mars is a red star, and communism uses a red star. China is communist and has a red flag and red dragon symbol. Rome is represented by Mars and Rome is the dragon. Francis is a socialist (red).

    I feel like all of these are connecting to tell a story but it's very vague as of yet.

    1. It’s just a color. One of three primary colors. And of those three, the one most often symbolic of aggression and energy. Various things have a need symbolism, and for that it’s perfect and logical. I think evangelicals these days are putting far too much time and energy into reading SOMETHING into EVERYTHING. A lot of things are simply “what they are”, and what they are isn’t significantly interesting or noteworthy.

    2. I think it's interesting, Anon. Every fact has meaning, even if we can't always determine it right away. yes, the Republican Party is another avatar of the red dragon

    3. I would argue that, by using red/scarlet not once but TWICE, to describe the dragon and beast in Rev 12 and Rev 17, God is prodding us to solve this question of what the color signifies. It's oddly specific.

  16. Go to youtube search for Robert Breaker and Gene Kim on why we should read KJV ONLY

  17. I can't describe how painful it is to see people cling to this view. First, the KJV wasn't even the first English translation (there were 6+ earlier). Second, the translation committee of the KJV wrote an introduction/dedicatory page that explicitly denies that their translation should ever be viewed as perfect or even "the best." They would be rolling over in their graves to see the legalistic cult that has sprung out of their work. KJV Onlyism, by very definition, must deny the authenticity of the autographs and all earlier Bible translations. Third, KJV Onlyism was invented in 1930 by a writer within the Seventh-Day Adventist movement. It isn't even 100 years old.

    Our take on KJV Onlyism

    1. Thank you, Gary. I tend to lump KJV only people in with flat earthers in that they are frequently so adamant in their opinion and look at the rest of us as fools. It makes it difficult to take them seriously in other topics.
      By the way, Rev 15:1 describes another great sign in the sky. Any idea if that is a Rev 12 type sign and when it might be showing up?

    2. This is my understanding about why some are KJV only. It is the texts used from which the New Testament gets translated. The Majority text versus the Alexandrian, I believe. The salvation of the two men, Westcott and Hort, who advocated the Alexandrian text has been questioned by some, therefore their motives as well.

    3. I really like the LSV, it makes the Greek and Hebrew more accessible to my brain.

    4. @WisChE, it seems to be the last half of the tribulation. We might see it but we wont see it from earth.

      1And I saw another sign in the sky, great and wonderful: seven messengers having the seven last plagues, because in these the wrath of God was completed,
      2and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who gain the victory over the beast, and his image, and his mark, [and] the number of his name, standing by the sea of the glass, having harps of God,

      3and they sing the song of Moses, servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and wonderful [are] Your works, O LORD God, the Almighty, righteous and true [are] Your ways, O King of holy ones!

      4Who may not fear You, O LORD, and glorify Your Name? Because You alone [are] holy, because all the nations will come and worship before You, because Your righteous acts were revealed.”

      5And after these things I saw, and behold, the temple of the Dwelling Place of the Testimony was opened in Heaven; 6and the seven messengers having the seven plagues came forth out of the temple, clothed in linen, pure and radiant, and girded around the breasts with golden girdles: 7and one of the four living creatures gave to the seven messengers seven golden bowls, full of the wrath of God, who is living through the ages of the ages; 8and the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power, and no one was able to enter into the temple until the seven plagues of the seven messengers may be completed.

    5. I think I was wrong, the Majority text versus the eclectic text.

    6. I have to agree that the KJV Only thing irritates me. In fact, as soon as I realize a preacher follows that teaching, I immediately discount them as worth listening to. It originated in cults and is followed by cults (Mormons are KJV-only). I don't have a problem with individuals who love that translation, because it's totally legitimate to select a favorite, and KJV is just as good as any other to pick. It's the legalistic, irrational belief that it's the "only true version" that makes be till my eyes and stop listening.

    7. Ironically, Robert Breaker has a video about the Revelation 15 sign and it appeared to be a reference to the 'cup' that is the Plaides turning on it's side about 7 years after the Revelation 12 sign. (At least, that's what I remember of it. I don't tend to rewatch things over and over for details, I'd get nothing done if I did that with everything I watched and read...)

      As for the KJV only debate, it's the KJV that's on my desk to do initial lookups, and then I'll often go over to biblehub to see how all the others have translated it. If I feel there's too many variants in translating, I look at their greek/hebrew breakdown. The only reason I would elevate KJV above any others is they had access to some manuscripts that have since decayed beyond useability. Some of the more modern translations like the NIV are a bit more suspect to me since I've read comparisons that show it is sometimes missing verses wholesale or seems to fight the plain meaning of some sections.

      Then there's flat earthers... I don't even try to debate with them anymore. They've put their faith in it and the only thing I'll say to them is, 'Remember Lot's wife' and not look back to see if you're right about it or not. It only keeps going because people don't understand how light travels, gravity, physics and perspective. I lean more towards the electric/plasma/simulation theories, but I don't think it's as important to have the 'right opinion' on some things. It is far more important to have faith in the Lord Jesus and His resurrection. (1st Corinthians 15:1-4, John 6:29/3:16, Romans 9 and 10...etc)

    8. Variants are interesting, means there is a hidden gem there. Most of the time, it seems to be a messianic reference.

  18. I was so glad to see Kenneth Wuest's research included herein! I just posted an article incorporating that same quote then came by Unsealed to share the article in case anyone was interested!

    Like JD Farag, I started with the BAD NEWS: An elite "tabletop exercise" for a coming catastrophe has begun this week!

    The GOOD NEWS: It could very well point to the nearness of the Rapture!


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  20. This comment has been removed by the author.

  21. new youtube: (The Return of the King)
    Rapture 2021: Final Countdown to Pentecost! Convergence!

    Thanks Brother George, I hope you are right! You packed a lot into this 15 minute video.


    Jesus is Coming Soon.

    1. The "Return of the King" person has some interesting numbers, but he's simone that picks a new date every six months or so, none of which have planned out (and he never apologizes for his false prophecies). It's hard to put much weight that /this time/ he'll be right.

      But, it would be nice if it were this Pentecost!

  22. I agree with the pre-trib position on this. The phrase " rightly divide"is a biblical one. 2 timothy 2:15.

    The problem is that it is subjective. One mans right dividing is another mans
    error. If there are two differing opinions on something, both cannot be right so therefore someone is wrongly dividing. Or possibly both are wrong.

    The law administration ended at Pentecost, we have been since in the age of grace. The same one Paul was in when he wrote the Church epistles.

    II thessalonians he writes that "we have been delivered from the wrath to come". What do you think was talking about? The tribulation. This was written to Christians not to Jews still under the law.

    It seems like those who subscribe to mid and post trib positions dont really believe that their redemption was made complete by Jesus' accomplished work. That its somehow not right for us to escape while everyone else suffers during those horrible three and a half to seven years coming.

  23. I think of Noah and how all those years he was building an ark. People mocking him, making fun of him. Some of them probably were in his face about their debauchery. God made sure Noah was kept safe to finish his work. Our job right now is just to finish well, to not be beaten down by the sin and lies of this world. We are being told a lot of crap from a lot of people that are bold-faced lies! We live in a lawless country, I’m taking about the U.S. here. God is clearly judging America for its sins. We will probably see more scary stuff. I read just today the COVID lie didn’t do enough damage, pain, death so another pharma false flag will probably be coming soon. Do NOT take whatever the treatment they say is!!! Remember Noah and imagine what he had to see, “But God” kept him from the flood!

  24. Greetings Rhonda! Is this the information you are talking about here?


    1. Greetings Maranatha321, yes, that was the article I was referring
      to. Thank you for posting it! Maranatha!

  25. I'm going tomorrow to get my second Pfizer vaccine. I can let you all know what happens to me. lol. I was scared at first about getting it. But then my pastor got it and my parents did too and then I decided to go through with it myself. I feel fine so far. I talked to my pastor about it and we both agree, no one can snatch us out of our Shepherd's hands. This vaccine is not me pledging allegiance to someone other than Christ. It is just a vaccine. I think. We'll see I guess.

    1. These are the days of deception, Lillie. If the world is pushing something, we need to run away. We are not to be of the world, and not to tempt God by doing something He will need to fix. And, it's not "just a vax." It's the final solution to over population.

    2. Yes Lillie you are absolutely correct in that it is just a vaccine, and NO ONE, or THING, can snatch us away for Our Savior. My reservation is this. It has NOT gone through enough testing. We are basically the test. My son, who happens to be Type 1 diabetic was minutes from death as the 2nd dose increased his BS to 993 (around 100 is normal) and decreased his bodies PH to 6.88 (7.4 in normal; and 6.80 is death); All I say is pray about it, and do what you think is right for you, but be cautious, bc we truly have no idea what side effects will effect whom, etc and in my sons case almost cost his life. Praise God it didn't.

    3. When satan tempted Jesus to throw himself over the wall and let the angels catch him, He didn't tumble for that.

  26. CY and Cry, I agree with everything you are saying. The fake pandemic, the fake vaccine (gene therapy and poisonous), the ridiculous masks, the lock-downs, social distancing, vaccine passports are all social engineering or the conditioning of people for total control. The globalists have planned all these things well in advance for the New World Order when antichrist will be in control. Lilie, the shot you took is NOT just a vaccine but you are correct it is NOT the Mark of the Beast either, but the world is coming to that. Please see J.D. Farag's much researched videos about all that I have mentioned here at jdfarag.org

    1. Yes, Rhonda. The tech giants and the pharm giants have teamed up to give a false witness. And now the Gates have parted to open the portal to usher in even more evil.

  27. Thank you all for your words of caution and wisdom.

    Lyndsey, I'm so glad your son is okay. I'm sure that was scary. But God was with him. I rejoice with you.

    I did get second dose today. We'll see how it goes. So far all is well. You know, I was at a crossroads where either the vaccine is actually effective or everyone I love is getting some shot that is going to turn them into a humanoid and be eaten alive by their own immune system and leave me behind. So I chose to get vaccine because I'll either be better protected from covid or I won't be left out if something happens to all my loved ones. It's probably not the best rationalization. But I know God knows my heart. I'm just trying my best to navigate all the insanity of this world. I'll post it if I start growing a third eye. Lol
    Hey, the joy of the Lord is our strength!!

    1. I think there's a lot of fear going around on both sides and it's probably intentional to set the 'two sides' against one another. God doesn't give us a spirit of fear though, so we know who this isn't coming from...

  28. I have thought long and hard about all the vaccine talk...whether we should or shouldn't. If these vaccines do end up being lethal, the number of people that would die are the numbers spoken of in the Great Tribulation, so, most of us reading this should have nothing to worry about :). If you didn't take it, great, you're rapture. If you did, great, you're raptured!

  29. Ditto, Lilie. Same situation here!

  30. I had the covid and had covid double pneumonia. I know 9 or 10 people that has died from it and some of them had no health issues. I decided to get the vaccine and was around someone with covid-19 and tested negative. After almost a month never did get it. Yes I had flu like systems on both for a day but I feel it was worth it. I know I will be raptured or be with Jesus if I die before. It's wild because Christian people judge when you get the vaccine. I'm just glad I got it. I hope to never be that sick again from the covid-19.

    1. I have no doubt that the Lord would have made known to us to avoid the vaccine. We are told to be good citizens. That’s what we should be. How much energy we waste on the cares of this world. There is nothing that enters in that defiles. It’s what comes out of the heart that does that.
      The vaccine violates nothing under Grace.

    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    3. I understand your wanting to support fellow believers who got the CV. However, I do not think anyone here said in this thread that taking the CV was the Mark and would nullify God's grace. However, by what are you referring to that the Lord would have made known to us in the Body of Christ to avoid the vaccine? What exactly would you expect Him to do to tell us to avoid the vaccine? Did GOD make known to the German people that they should not follow Hitler? What evidence would there have been for that? He certainly did make it known to the German people who had ears to hear to not follow Hitler, but it was not something that most of them received. In this time of extreme Satanic suppressing of the truth by organizations such as Big Tech, MSM, and yes our own government to say the Lord would have made it known to us to avoid the CV does not truly carry water because of the pervasive suppression of the truth and promoting of lies by said organizations. God does still get the truth out there about the CV and I recommend visiting web based media such as Daily Crow, Rapture Ready, even the bloggers on Revelation 12 Daily to name just a few and one will begin to find out that there is so much more to the CV program than what the MSM and US Gov. and WHO etc. are leading us to think.
      To assert that we should be good citizens and obey the government does not mean for us to ignore blatant Satanic corruption in the CV program and I am not exaggerating. The German people were brain washed, lied to, and held in fear to motivate them to hate the Jews by their own God hating Nazi government. If our own government is telling us the whole truth and nothing but the truth about the CV then why are they censoring well established medical doctors and world class scientists who are sounding the alarm about the grave dangers of the CV? Simply, there is much more to the CV than most Christians and non-Christians are getting because of the lies of the enemy at this time in God's time table.
      God does not want Christians to ignore the truth and blindly obey our government when they are foisting lies that lead to death and serious injury of innocent people. God is speaking; the Truth is out there still. Do all governments give people truth? How is our own government doing these days? I guess that presidential election and the aftermath was all legitimate. I wonder if many people here do not realize that a number of the pharmaceutical companies that are making and profiting from the CV have a long history of being convicted in court for knowingly lying about their products that killed and injured scores of people. I wonder if most people here don't know that the vaccine makers actually cannot be sued if any of their vaccines cause harm or death by a special exemption given to them by our very own government since the 80's. There is NO incentive for them to produce truly safe vaccines; we are not naive. The CV is an experimental V. Warp speed did cut corners if you really look into it. The Prince of this World is always lying and suppressing the truth so be wise to the motivations and actions of those who are deliberately keeping the truth from us.

    4. @Believer,

      I am thankful you recovered and are at peace with the decision you've made. I know many who have contracted CV and shaken it. Thankfully, all survived.


      Is the CV vaccine the mark? No. Is it a salvation issue? No. Is it personal choice as to if you get vaccinated or not? I certainly hope so. Do our choices come with consequences? Absolutely. Do we get to choose our consequences. Unfortunately, no. Will "a" vaccine to come be the mark? Yes, I believe so at least in part as a delivery system it could be.

      Are we there today? No.

      May the LORD Himself guide you in your decisions. Let wisdom speak directly into your heart and may you make choices to the Glory of God knowing that not one of you will be snatched from the palm of His hand.

      Your name is engraved upon it.

  31. I highly recommend anyone who has not taken the vaccine or its second dose to very, very soon visit the websites of the following sources for information that Big Tech and your own government (the one that brought you things like the stolen election, prosecuting David Daleiden the jounalist who exposed Planned Parenthood for selling aborted baby body parts, and let's not fail to mention selling our people out to China):
    Children's Health Defense.org
    Dr. Mercola (www.drmercola.com)
    Dr. Sherry Tenpenny (www.drtenpenny.com)
    Epoch Times
    These are just a start, but you can almost guarantee that the vast majority of people who are getting the covid vaccine have not heard the whole story about them in regards to their so called safety and effectiveness; what the actual picture of adverse effects really is shaping into; and who is actually promoting them. The truth is that the ones promoting the vaccines are the ones who are against freedom of speech. They are the ones who are censoring doctors who are sounding the alarm about the very serious dangers for those who get vaccinated. If one really believes the rapture is near then wouldn't it stand to reason that the world would be so profoundly corrupt at this time that maybe one should, at the least, hear out the voices of those who are not of the government and are saying something is seriously not right with the vaccine program and how it is being rolled out. Satan comes as an angel of light and uses lies, and deceit to suppress the truth and if you look at the actions of your government and the world's governments then you see unbridled censorship, threats and actions to silence critical review, and a trampling of basic human freedom by steadily rigging the system to compel people to get the vaccine or lose your job. The ones who really judge harshly are not the Christians, but rather the ones promoting the vaccines. A recent example of this is a dean at Baylor College of Medicine writing an article that was published in the prestigious scientific journal, Nature, saying that the United Nations should silence all anti-vaxxers as a way to stop anti-vax aggression! The whole propaganda of even characterizing people as anti-vaxxers is sinful. These people are actually ones who call for Truthful reporting about what is really happening with vaccines. The love of money is the root of all evil as the Bible says. Wouldn't that make a Christian open to listening to the people who are sounding the alarm that the ones who make more money than any other industry by far are setting you up for harm? Check out Daily Crow and Rapture Ready folks if you want regular reporting of news that your government, Big Tech, and the MSM do all they can do to keep from you.

  32. This comment has been removed by the author.

  33. Great article Matthew!
    Thank you for providing an authentic interpretation of the departure and explaining its implication for those of us who are looking eagerly for the Blessed Hope of Jesus coming to rescue us.

    1. All Glory to God, and Thanks to Tommy, he is a wonderful at fitting the puzzle together.

  34. The Calgary Canada pastor was just arrested for daring to hold a church services without masks. That's the second pastor in anti-freedom-of-religion Canada to get arrested. The fact that this man moved out of Poland to escape Nazi persecution just gives it that extra spice of horrible irony.

    I keep praying that our departure is before this gets so much worse.

    We're nearing the end of the 6000 years alotted to mankind (assuming that Jesus death was at the final moments of "day four" of the seven year prophetic clock, and the church began somewhere around the beginning of "day five"). With those assumptions in mind, at the outer most estimate, "day seven" will be starting up by 2034 at the very, very latest (and I don't think it's that far off). In fact, 2028 is one possible year for the clock to tick over into the final seventh Millennium. Subtract seven years for the Trib...

    So, this year is a realistic possibility for the Rapture. And if not this year (I hope it's this year), then probably it's within the next 6. Either way, it's Sooo close!

  35. Looking up, amen to that!!!! Very well said. Thank you

  36. LookingUp, I fully agree with you. I am convinced that Christians that follow end time prophecy and are eagerly waiting for the appearance of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, would have seen the danger of this so called Vax without to much confirmation from others. We are in a time where the words of Jesus are especially true: Matthew 10: 16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

  37. HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY, 2021

    One of the most tender sides of the LORD is His motherly side. Jesus' genetics came wholly from His mother. How fitting. Jesus was born fully God and fully human with the human-side coming from king David and blessed through his mother Mary.

    Each of us are made to love. Love God, love one another as we love ourselves. Such tender love comes from God and issues from a heart rendered for love. Ladies, thank you for the love you pour out each and every day.

    Hard as it is at times; Jesus will always be by your side.

    Blessings to you this Mother's Day and always,

    Pastor Rich & Family

    1. Thank you! It's a blessing to be a mother. Being a parent teaches us a lot about love. And His love truly is a tender love. I'm grateful to receive it and share it with others. Blessings to you and everyone here and especially all the other mothers here today!

  38. From the blood moons of 2014-2015, seven years of plenty?
    From the blood moons of 2021-2022, seven years of tribulation?

    1. https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/lunar/2021-may-26

  39. In a previous post, I laid bare a possible timeline, starting with a Rapture of the Bride before September 23rd, 2021. This would be the 4-year anniversary of the Revelation 12 sign, and it would represent the end of the extra year afforded to the ill-producing fig tree in the New Testament book of Luke.

    Forty days later, after Israel has made its lonely walk of contemplation, there would come November 1st, 2021; and this could be the day that the Anti-Christ confirms the peace deal that initiates the Tribulation. It’s the same lunar day as that sin-filled Halloween; and the same day that Hitler started a European Order; and the same day that the modern European Union was confirmed. A new Roman empire for a new Roman Anti-Christ. ***see footnote at bottom***

    1260 days later, we have the first evening of Passover 2025 on April 13th. This makes 2025 the year of the Abomination of Desolation . . . of the Altar.

    1260 days later still, we have the end of the Tribulation and wrath on September 22-23rd, 2028. The day is Shabbat Shuvah, and there are a final 7 days left before the door of the Ark closes on Salvation, just as with Noah. And after those seven days is the very last Day of Atonement on September 30th, 2028.

    I was pretty wordy when I wrote those pages the first time, so today, I just wanted to add this information briefly:

    Recognizing that there are obviously thick layers of meaning written into Biblical numbers and gematria, is there a difference between the prophetic numbers of the Jews/Hebrews versus those of the Gentile Church? And how do they match the above timeline? I leave it to you to consider . . .

    (continued below)


    2018 “I bring forward (against), impose, inflict”
    2019 “I call out, shout, clamor at”
    2020 “I dawn, am near commencing”
    2021 “I take in hand, attempt” [marriage? Rapture?]
    2022 “I pour upon” [earthly troubles? Heavenly rewards?]
    2023 “I supply, provide (perhaps lavishly), furnish” [a mansion/Upper room?]
    2024 “Supply, provision, equipment, support” [prepare for our return as an army?]
    2025 “I spread on, anoint” [the witnesses and the Sealed?]
    2026 “I build upon (above) a foundation”
    2027 “I force forward, run (a ship) aground” [shorten the days?]
    2028 “I name, impose a name on; pass: am named” [the entire population WILL recognize me?]
    2029 “I am an eyewitness of, behold, look upon” [a new Jerusalem?]
    2030 “An eyewitness, spectator, looker-on”



    2018 “An overthrow”
    2019 “Crooked”
    2020 “Deliverance”
    2021 “Perhaps a weapon (of war)” [the virus/vaccine?]
    2022 “Mountain, hill, hill country”
    2023 “Two mountains in Palestine [two-state peace?]
    2024 “A region of North Mesopotamia”
    2025 “Altar” [the Desolation; the replacement of Holy Blood on the first day of Passover?]
    2026 “To kill, slay”
    2027 “A slaughter”
    2028 “A slaughter” [the End of the Tribulation?]
    2029 “To conceive, become pregnant” [a new future in a new Jerusalem?]
    2030 “Pregnant”

    (continued below)

  41. Now, one last thing. Since the Hebrew year starts in the Fall of our Gregorian calendar, let’s run it again with Hebrew years in the Hebrew Concordance . . . for a genuinely HEBREW perspective? . . .

    Fall 2018 (starts Hebrew year 5779) “to counsel, plan”
    Fall 2019 (starts Hebrew year 5780) “a son of Aram, also a son of Nahor, also an Edomite . . . “
    Fall 2020 (starts Hebrew year 5781) “perhaps to totter, cause tottering” [their failed gov/election?]
    Fall 2021 (starts Hebrew year 5782) “to rouse oneself, awake” [after they see the Rapture?]
    Fall 2022 (starts Hebrew year 5783) “to be exposed or bare” [no walls? A false peace?]
    Fall 2023 (starts Hebrew year 5784) “chaff” [separation?]
    Fall 2024 (starts Hebrew year 5785) “a skin” [the Abomination?]
    Fall 2025 (starts Hebrew year 5786) “to make blind, blind” [the Hebrews begin Wrath without Jesus?]
    Fall 2026 (starts Hebrew year 5787) “blind” [still blind during the Wrath?]
    Fall 2027 (starts Hebrew year 5788) “blindness” [still more Wrath?]
    Fall 2028 (starts Hebrew year 5789) “to lend aid, come to help” [the Wrath ends on Shabbat Shuvah?]
    Fall 2029 (starts Hebrew year 5790) “perhaps to help” [if you made Atonement through Jesus?]
    Fall 2030 (starts Hebrew year 5791) “to be bent or crooked” [the remainder?]


    A while back, Gary Stearman wrote a tremendous article in the magazine “the prophecy WATCHER” on the Tribe of Dan. I loaned it to a friend, so I cannot reference it at this moment, but essentially, it goes a LONG way towards showing conclusively that the long-lost tribe of Dan changed it’s colors from Serpent to “serpent-hunting” Eagle, and then became the city-state of the Spartan Greeks. They, of course, built an empire which was overtaken by the Romans in later years; drawing a direct connection from the Tribe which was thought to bring the AC to the rebuilt empire of stone and clay that was once solidly iron in Daniel’s prophecy. And all of this is backed by an historical letter between the Jewish High Priest and the Spartans, saying, “A document has come to light which shows that Spartans and Jews are kinsmen . . . “

    Of course, you could get the magazine, but the closest that I can come to giving you a lead into this search is this link to someone else’s website, where a small portion was written down online:

    Will the Antichrist Be From the Tribe of Dan? pt1 | Prophecy Watch (proboards.com)

    Mr. Stearman, of the noted Stearman Aircraft family, also wrote an in-depth article in the June 2019 edition, stating that “Pentecost . . . seems ideally suited as the model for the rapture.” For all those with their eyes on the next two weeks!

    1. This timeline is easy to model so I will give it a try. Thank you for posting!

      I too have looked at Dan, fifth son of Jacob child of Bilhah, and his brother Naphtali, sixth son of Jacob child of Bilhah, noting their birthdays on the calendar. Both were very interesting.

      As for Pentecost and the Rapture? I was in that camp at first and, "Yes" the Rapture imagery is quite vivid. Prophecy Watchers is a great source of information on this topic! I was watching for Ascension Day this year but now have eyes on the Feast of Weeks. (Giving of the Torah)

      (Numbers 10) has become very interesting to me as of late!


  42. Trying the link again . . .


  43. Yes, thank you. The Geneva has it right, and read simply, plainly and literally, it all makes perfect contextual sense within the entire letter. No reason for Paul to veer into the apostate church with no other mention of such in either letter to the Thessalonians. That makes no sense.



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