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What About the Babies?



I was recently asked what will happen to children—specifically children too young to place their faith in Jesus—at the rapture.  This same broached subject applies equally to adults who, for whatever reason, are mentally incapable of consciously putting their faith in Jesus.  Like many issues, I think there can be an unscriptural extreme on different ends of the spectrum of possibilities.

On one end you have those who emphasize the patterns deduced from the global flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as the conquest of Canaan, in which it would seem children were not spared.  Sometimes those staunchly embedded in the Reformed or Catholic traditions will argue that children will—shudder—not be spared from God's wrath if, in the case of Reformed, they haven't volitionally placed their faith in Jesus, or, in the case of Catholic teaching, haven't been baptized in water.  At first glance this would seem to be profoundly unjust and unmerciful for image bearers of God who were incapable of believing in Jesus.

On the other end, you have the popular Evangelical perspective that all children under a certain “age of accountability” are assured of rapture by virtue of their being “innocent.”  In this perspective, the post-rapture world will be completely devoid of children and many mentally handicapped—at least until new children are conceived during the Tribulation itself.  I naturally gravitate toward this position, but I also have a certain qualm that this seems to be on the verge of a partial universalism where millions of people are skirting more important biblical doctrines, namely that faith in Jesus isn't a requirement for some, but for all.  Jesus is the only way.

The Bible doesn't actually address the question directly, so in order to arrive at a conclusion we have to piece together what the Bible does say.  As I attempt to piece this together, bear with me and keep reading.  You might see a point below that would seem to substantiate one or the other of the camps mentioned above, but we need to gather all the relevant information to make an informed conclusion.

1. God is worth more than all people who ever lived.  He alone is worthy (Deut. 10:21; Jer. 10:7; Rev. 4:11; Rev. 5:4–5).  He's worth more than you and me.  He's worth more than all the children who ever lived—precious in His sight though they are.

2. Life is a gift, not a right.  No one is entitled to life. (Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:16; etc).  God gives us life and takes it away (Deut. 32:39).  It was only an act of grace to begin with that any of us were given life.  Our 21st-century egalitarian, rugged individualism sometimes makes us uncomfortable with this notion.

3. No one can be saved apart from Christ, and the only way to be saved through Christ is by exercising faith in Him (Jn. 3:14–18; 14:6; Acts 4:12; Jn. 8:24).  No one gets a pass from the narrow way that is Jesus.

4. Condemnation is not first based on sin, but on unbelief in Christ (Jn. 3:16–18).  Without belief in Christ you are left to face judgment for your sins (see Rev. 20).

5. No one is good (Rom. 3:10) and all have fallen short of God's glory (Rom. 3:23).  Children are not excepted from this.  How can this be?  Because everyone is conceived with a sin nature as a result of Adam's sin (Rom. 5:12; Ps. 51:5).  Sometimes the sin nature is mistaught as something that is only a potentiality until one comes of age, but the idea of original sin and the sin nature is that we sin by nature (I know that's so profound).  Apart from Christ, even from our youth we are constantly in a state of sin and sinfulness.

Infants do not have full self-awareness, but they are certainly sinning nonetheless—screaming and raging, essentially exhibiting none of the fruits of the Spirit.  As soon as children are walking around then you see other sins develop: defiance, disobedience, violence, thieving, mistrust, envy, etc.

6. In his discourse with Abraham, God essentially said he would spare the city of Sodom for any number of righteous men found.  But only Lot was found.  Lot's deeds were largely wicked, but he was counted righteous because of his faith in YHWH.  The city was not spared, but Lot was able to take the members of his household.  Likewise with Noah: only he was found righteous (through faith), but he was able to take his household.

7. No children were spared in the Flood or in Sodom, or, for the most part, during the Israelites' conquest of Canaan.  This confirms that children are not excepted from God's judgment by virtue of their being children.

8. Though an age of accountability is an often taught concept, it doesn't actually appear anywhere in the New Testament.  This doctrine comes only from assuming certain Old Testament types and shadows in the Law apply to us today (e.g., those over 20 at the rebellion couldn't enter the Promised Land; those under 20 didn't need to bring atonement at least in Ex. 30; those under 20 weren't counted in the census; etc).  Also, Jewish custom is that adulthood is reached at 12–13.  Jesus was 12 in the Temple.  So a theoretical “age of accountability” is surmised to be at around 12–13 or 20.

9. An age of accountability is almost completely arbitrary.  Teenagers and even younger children willfully sin all the time and can disbelieve in Jesus just as much as adults can.  There is an irony that many who argue for an age of accountability argue such because of the inability of children to choose Christ of their own volition, yet the only ages they garner from the Bible are well above when a child can understand the difference between right and wrong and choose Christ.

If you believe that an age of accountability exists and the reason it exists is because children can't place their faith in Jesus, then to be consistent in your view you'll have to set the theoretical limit much lower than 12 or 13.

Now that I've shared about the absolute universality of sin and the absolute necessity of faith in Jesus Christ (Jesus is the only way), hang on for #10.  There's good news...




10. Mercy triumphs over judgment (Jas. 2:13).  Jesus came full of grace (Jn. 1:14).  He didn't come to condemn, but to save (Jn. 3:16–17).  Jesus loves the little children (Lk. 18:16).  Do you look on an infant and condemn them for their sin nature?  Or do you look at a helpless child with pity, affection, and love?  Do you think you have more pity and love for children than the God who made them does?  How twisted can our thinking be that we would mistrust the care of children to the same God who demands we care for the orphan? 

Little children and many of the mentally handicapped are incapable of rejecting Christ.  They sin just as we all do, but have no consciousness of it.  They are not aware.  They cannot believe in Christ, but neither can they disbelieve in Christ.  They cannot decipher right and wrong.  They sin, but do not carry guilt.  They sin, but have no iniquity.  They are guileless.

So without faith in Christ they would, like all, die in their sins.  Paul is clear sin exists both under and outside the Law (Rom. 2:12), but the Law was given to make us aware.  But even though they would die in their sins (as we see happened in the Flood, Sodom, Canaan, etc), they have no guilt, no iniquity.  There is no faith that can result in salvation, but there is also no sin that can be rightfully judged—they were unaware and slaves to their sin nature.  Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.

1 Peter 3:18–20 describes in unequivocal terms Jesus, after His atoning death and resurrection, preaching to the imprisoned spirits in Hades who disobeyed in the time of the Flood.  Other passages allude to a similar event.


. . . also because Christ suffered once for sin—righteous for unrighteous—that He might lead us to God, indeed having been put to death in the flesh, but having been made alive in the Spirit, by which, having gone, He also preached to the spirits in prison, who sometime [ago] disobeyed when once the long-suffering of God waited, in [the] days of Noah—an ark being prepared—in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water . . .


As Scripture says, man is appointed to die once and then judgment, but that final judgment occurs in an era long after death.  The final judgment occurs sometime after the 1,000-year millennial reign of Christ.  What has happened to spirits from the time of Adam to the time of Christ?  They were kept in Hades, both the righteous and unrighteous (e.g., Lk. 16:19-31).  But after Christ completed His atoning work on the Cross and rose again, the whole dynamic changed.  Now believers are gathered to Heaven (2 Cor. 5:6–10; Eph. 4:8; Acts 7:54–60; Rev. 6:9–11; see also Lk. 23:43; Mt. 27:52–53).

I firmly believe there are no second chances after death as universal reconciliation teaches.  Blaspheming (rejecting) the Spirit with which Christ came is not a forgivable offense, neither in this age nor in the age to come (Mt. 12:30–32).  But there are first chances.  There are those who never heard the good news in days past and I have full assurance the God who made them and loves them will give them their chance.  He's willing—in the perfect, rather than permissive sense—that none should perish and all come to conversion.

Lest we become too legalistic in our interpretation of “die once and then judgment,” a judgment is a verdict.  The verdict can be either good or bad.  Exoneration or sentencing.  In terms of the judgment of salvation, the judgment is already over for those who believe in Christ (Jn. 3:18; 5:24).  If someone from ages past who had no opportunity to believe the gospel dies and then, by God's grace, is given the opportunity to believe, then places their faith in Christ, their judgment is passed as well.  Hebrews 9:27 is still upheld.

But a word of warning from Paul in Romans 1:18–32: there are also those in ages past who suppressed the truth in unrighteousness.  They may never have heard the gospel as plainly as we do now, but they are yet without excuse because of their suppressing the little truth of God they did know.  They rejected the Spirit of God who would have otherwise enlightened them.

But little children and the mentally handicapped are not among them.  These never rejected or suppressed the truth.  These are precious in His sight, predestined for Heaven, and granted the faith which they need for salvation.  But the question is merely timing.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14 we see the pattern of Noah and his family and Lot and his family applied to our present situation.  The children of a believing parent—even one believing parent—are set apart, sanctified.  Assuredly this is because they have been exposed to the gospel through their parent and on some level share their parent's faith.  In addition, all three Persons of the Godhead dwell within every believer, including Jesus.  This means the children of a believer are connected, through their parent, to Jesus in some sense.  If we who believe will be transformed into Christ's likeness in a moment of time, at the rapture, then by all means our sanctified (set apart) children who are too little to understand will certainly be made in His likeness, too—given, in an instant, the gift of faith as we ourselves already possess.  And our precious loved ones with impairments preventing volitional faith in this life, will be given faith as well.

So let me wrap this up and summarize what I think:

1. No one can be saved without actual faith in Christ or else we are denying our central and most important doctrine: the gospel and exclusivity of Jesus for salvation.

2. As we saw in the cases of Noah and Lot, children of believers, in their household and under their care, will assuredly be rescued along with their believing parents as an act of God's grace.  There are a number of ways to reconcile this view with #1—perhaps they already have a primordial faith that would blossom into a saving faith in adulthood; perhaps during the rapture they are given faith and glorification at the same moment.  Remember, Scripture says even faith is a gift!  (e.g., Eph. 2:8–9; Jn. 6:44; Acts 11:18; 13:48; 16:14; Rom. 12:3; 1 Cor. 12:9).

3. While I like the idea that children of unbelievers will also be raptured, I don't see a strong case for that.  Children in similar situations were not excepted before (e.g., the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaan, the Holocaust, etc).  How many children perished in all the wars and plagues throughout human history?  Children are not excepted from judgment and suffering just by virtue of being children.  They also sin.  They also need a Savior.  They also have to believe.  The children of the righteous somehow have this faith imparted to them by proximity, by God's grace, at the moment of the rapture event when glorification occurs.

4. But, little children and the mentally impaired relatives of unbelievers, who have no guilt or guile, which would be most or all of them, cannot be justly judged for sin.  Nor can they be condemned for unbelief, because they had no capacity for belief or unbelief.  They would die once, as Scripture says, but experience a saving faith after death that leads to eternal life in Christ Jesus after the general resurrection of the dead at the Great White Throne judgment of Revelation 20.

Here's a final caveat: I could be wrong about some of this.  It's true that the dynamic changed in a big way after Jesus rose again.  Now believers are gathered in Heaven, rather than on the “good” side of Hades with Abraham.  Jesus has, apparently, already preached to the imprisoned spirits who perished in the Flood (1 Pt. 3).  Perhaps post-Christ all children who die young, even of unbelievers, are given faith immediately after death and are immediately ushered into Heaven.  Before Christ came children were not yet given entrance.  They had to wait along with all of mankind.

So I do reach my conclusion with humility.  I think we can be assured that all miscarried and aborted babies, all little children, and the mentally handicapped, will be saved.  There's simply no coherent scriptural argument otherwise.  And this can only occur after they obtain, by grace, a saving faith in Jesus after death.  They will receive the gift—not right or obligation—of eternal life.  The question is merely timing: will they receive it at the rapture or at the general resurrection of Revelation 20?

Remember, without faith it is impossible to please God.  Everything apart from faith is sin.  God demands faith from all.  But the result of faith unto salvation is the indwelling Holy Spirit who regenerates our dead spirits and unites us to Christ.  Everyone, children included, need this faith, which is the gift of God, in order to be regenerated and restored.

One problem with assuming the children of unbelievers receive eternal life at the rapture rather than at the post-Tribulational or post-millennial resurrections is the simple fact more children will be born, both during the Tribulation and during the Millennial Kingdom.  What about the children of unbelievers who perished before the rapture?  What about the children of unbelievers who perish after the rapture?

The resurrection and rapture is a special event for the body of Christ, those who are presently in Christ.

So our gracious God will set all things right with perfect justice and overflowing grace, but it's in His timing.  Our job is to trust Him with our lives and entrust Him with the lives of others.  He loves them more than you do.  He made them.  He died for them.


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130 comments:

  1. Thank you, Gary. It is always a pleasure to read your posts and I will certainly study them. Now you say that faith is a gift and refers to Ephesians 2.
    Isn't it true that what Christ did for us on the cross is a gift and that we can accept it by faith?

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    1. Most welcome dear friend! Yes, it's all a gift. Our faith, God's grace, the Cross—all of it. All glory and credit goes to God alone.

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    2. Yes, you may be right in what you write. Free will and election coexist. I've been thinking lately that election was tied to God's foreknowledge, as Peter writes: 1 Peter 1:2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father. But perhaps Peter is referring to the apostleship.

      I come from the strict Calvinist corner and I have experienced firsthand the passivity and spiritual deadness, in which free will is denied and God is blamed when people are not chosen.

      God is much greater, so much more loving than I can ever imagine.
      Thank you, Gary.
      God bless.

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    3. "God is much greater, so much more loving than I can ever imagine."

      What a beautiful thought. It is indeed true.

      He is so much bigger. And He can be sovereign while we still have free will - that's deep water right there.

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  2. This is a very good article. Thank you for writing it. I'd like to add a thought that may be counter to your thought of all babies who die being saved. It may be that God has mercy on ALL babies being that we assume they are absolved of their sins because they aren't aware of them. But it could also be assumed that since God creates people that will never be saved, just as he creates people that will be saved,he knows which ones will and won't from the creation of their life. He know who is written in the book of life from the very beginning and so even though it goes beyond our ability to understand...be has the ability to know which babies are saved and which ones aren't. What do you think of this?

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    1. I don't agree...God doesn't assign who will believe rather He knows who will and won't believe. Makes a big difference.

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    2. Hey Lori, I think you're right about God's sovereignty and how, in His sovereignty, He has placed people exactly where they need to be in regards to whether or not they will be saved (Acts 17).

      However, God's sovereignty is never opposed to His love and justice. They go hand-in-hand. Children without the ability to reason or place their faith in Jesus have no iniquity, and neither do they have willful rejection. God doesn't judge sin in advance like in the Minority Report.

      Reconciling 1. faith is necessary, 2. all have fallen short, 3. but God is just, results, in my humble opinion, in the salvation of all children and the mentally impaired (who genuinely have no capacity for belief or unbelief). But it will be in God's timing.


      And Nan, that's basically the Arminian position, but I believe Scripture is quite clear. God isn't just a psychic. He's planned this whole thing out and determined our steps, where we will live, what we will do, etc (see Acts 17, Romans 9, Isaiah 45, etc). And, according to Scripture, faith itself is gift. We never sought God. He *gave* us faith and then we could seek Him.

      I find that Arminians have plenty of real Scriptures to defend free will and Calvinists have plenty of real Scriptures to defend predestination. Both are true, but it's hard for us to wrap our minds around it.

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    3. I do not believe He "planned" for anyone to go to hell! He wants all to come to salvation. But He knows who will and won't accept. What would be the purpose of witnessing otherwise? No need to tell anyone about Christ if it's already determined where they'll go.

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    4. That's understandable. I respect your view.

      This is why I said it can be hard to wrap our minds around. I have feelings about these things, but I also know Scripture is clear about predestination. He CHOSE US in Him before the foundation of the world.

      Regarding evangelism, the dynamic doesn't change at all. In order for someone to be saved they need to hear and believe. How can they believe unless they're told? But if they're not told, and die in their sins, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, then they were never elect.

      Free will is true.

      Election is also true.

      It doesn't make sense to us in a 3-d world, but free will and God's sovereignty are both true.

      Blessings.

      P.S. at the end of the article I also shared an article about hell that might be enlightening: http://www.unsealed.org/2016/11/conditionalism-vs-eternal-torment-vs.html

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    5. Nan that's why God sends us to the ones who will believe. I ask God to send me to those who will and He does.

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  3. Thank you Gary, very good message, I admit! We don't put God in a box. I myself thought that all the little ones and the innocent would come to the rapture. Because that's what I thought from my way of seeing things, which I find logical! But God .... His thoughts are not our thoughts. And its ways are impenetrable. He knows and he will do what is perfect because he is perfect. Who am I to think for him? He doesn't have to report to anyone. Faith makes you know that he's doing the right thing, at the right time and in his own way; he holds the world in his hands.

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    1. Good thoughts! Amen and amen.

      I have full confidence God will save all those without the capacity for belief in this life, but it will be in His perfect timing. We know for instance that the OT saints and Trib Saints will be resurrected post-Trib. I can't imagine children of unbelievers preceding those who've waited far longer.

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  4. I think we err by looking at salvation positionally. There are many examples in scripture where a person or group, city/nation were spared from judgement for a time only to be judged later. We know there is a distinction between the church and the tribulation saints in the Millennial Kingdom. Judgement is given to the church and it is not given to the tribulation saints, Revelation 20:4. We know that living mortals with a sin nature are going into the Millennial Kingdom for which the sacrificial system will return, Isaiah 56:7. We also actually do know that there are children in the tribulation because it specifically says so in Isaiah 13:16,18. We know there is a resurrection of the dead at the rapture. Is there any scriptural support to say that children who have never experienced life in this age will be given judgement over angels? I personally find it far more reasonable that they would be resurrected into a mortal form and go into the Millennial Kingdom and repopulate the earth. They too should be given the right to choose to follow Christ of their own volition. Obviously God searches the heart and only He knows what has not been revealed to us in scripture. We view death as a permanent end and yet many have been raised from the dead in scripture. God has not changed nor will He. We are at the end and we will soon know what He will do. We know He is not willing that any should perish and we know that His mercy endures forever. Maranatha.

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  5. Tricky subject. But you layed out a good argument brother Gary, why the children of believers will be taken in the Rapture. And the children of unbelievers won't.

    We just trust God that he has all the details planned and worked out perfectly.

    God bless you in Jesus name.

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    1. I believe they'll be saved in His perfect timing! Maranatha.

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  6. While infants and small children certainly died during the flood, as well as in Sodom and Gomorrah, that does not mean they were not taken to heaven after their deaths. The rapture is a very different event than those judgements were. It is completely possible that, despite dying in the wrath of the flood and burning sulfur, that God still allowed infants and little children and mentally handicapped folks to enter heaven through those events. Infants and children can easily and often do suffer for simply existing in this sinful world. The rapture, however, is not intended to preserve human life on earth as Noah's ark and Lot's surviving family were. They were meant to continue on in the world, while during the rapture the opposite is true.

    To reason that children might not be taken in the rapture because they weren't saved from the flood or Sodom thus doesn't make much sense. Infants could have very well been saved THROUGH dying in the flood or sulfur and INTO glory with Jesus during those events.

    In the end, we just don't know exactly how God will deal with this topic. So let's stand firm in what we do know for certain: God is 100% righteous and loving, and we can trust Him with our babies, children, and mentally handicapped. Because we know His character and it is Good. So we can simply trust His ways.

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  7. Matthew 18:10
    “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in Heaven.

    Isaiah 54:13
    All your children shall be taught by the Lord, and great shall be the peace of your children.

    Mark 10:13-16
    And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.

    Matthew 19:14
    But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

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    1. Beautiful verses of truth. God does indeed love them and will save them all in my view—once they have faith and the Spirit.

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  8. "In the end, we just don't know exactly how God will deal with this topic. So let's stand firm in what we do know for certain: God is 100% righteous and loving, and we can trust Him with our babies, children, and mentally handicapped. Because we know His character and it is Good. So we can simply trust His ways."

    Beautifully said. I'm in full agreement. We can fully trust the Perfect, Loving Judge. And we have nothing to fear, neither for our children.

    Just a small detail though: prior to the resurrection children could not have entered Heaven. Even OT saints weren't in Heaven yet. Abraham's spirit was still in Hades. Christ was the first man in the Throne Room.

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    1. That is not to say they were in any torment. God would be perfectly protecting them wherever they were.

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    2. During the tribulation, God says...woe unto them that are with child. What do you think this means? I think those that become with child during the tribulation will be sought after for the child's blood and adrenacone(sp?). If the mother becomes saved and is unvaxxed...woe to her especially. Her child (in the womb) is untarnished in its DNA and satan will know and want that child. Your thoughts?????

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  9. Good article. It's definitely something that I've wondered over many a time in recent years since I began watching. Ultimately, we have to rest in the knowledge that what God wills is just, and that when we do see it we'll understand how perfectly the plan all fit together.

    At my own thoughts, I've read several different ideas as to what might happen. Things like the mythology of the Chamber of Guf, that no more souls will be born into the world during the Tribulation. I don't buy that one, honestly. But I do think that you make some good points that children are not spared from physical death by earthly events. I'm personally inclined to lean towards the age of accountability theory. The idea that children can not be considered to have rejected Christ until they can understand what it means. So there has to be some point where they are put in a position where they can make the choice and understand what it means. God is Law and Justice, after all. Ultimately, He is Perfection, and whatever His plan is will be perfect when understand it.

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  10. My younger brother is the picture of Angelman's Syndrome, even though we don't have an official diagnosis. He has been generally known as being profoundly retarded. Even so, visit him at his Lutheran group home, he will gently take you by the hand and lead to through the house to see his pictures -- the first of which is of Jesus.

    At taking you to the classic portrait of the Lord he will look you in the eye with a huge smile on his face. A look that says, "Do you know him?"

    My brother certainly does.


    In the time before Calvary the righteous dead were found in paradise or what we know as Jacob's Bosom. A sub-division of hades (Sheol) if you will. Jesus' descent into the heart of the earth ended with His freeing of the prisoners.

    God made a way. In Him I trust.

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    1. This is beautiful! We absolutely can believe without being told or without what people would consider understanding. God is God. He will make himself known to ALL of his chosen whether they comprehend as we do or not.

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    2. Beautiful Pastor Rich. You are very blessed to have him for a brother.

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    3. This brought tears, brother. I look forward to meeting this sweet soul. God bless him!!

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    4. Thanks guys!

      My brother Jay is essentially non-verbal. He has only said a couple of spoken words in his 54 years of life in this world. Even so, he is filled with things to say. You can see it in his eyes. I can't wait for the Day when he is whole and speaks freely. Until then he speaks from the heart with a look and a smile.

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  11. All the verses you used to say that when we die we go to heaven are all misunderstood. It's to ignore all the ones who say the opposite.
    When Christians die, they don't go to heaven. This belief opposes the dead in Christ who will be raised, as well as the Second resurrection.
    Acts 7:59 Stephen said receive my spirit. He didn't say receive my new body. Because the holy spirit in us is what goes back to God when a Christian dies.
    When someone dies, there's no time, no memory, nothing. So 2 Co shows that when a Christian dies the next thing he'll see is God and Jesus. Sleep then resurrection.
    Ephesians 4:8 is a Hebrew idiom coming from Psalm 68:18. It doesn't mention any human.
    Revelation mentions something that will happen.It's a vision, not a fact.
    Luke 23:43 when you remove the coma then you will also change the belief. Punctuation was added to make it say when we die we go to heaven. This is not true. So Jesus said : I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.
    Matthew 27:52-53 is not in the original text. It was added too.

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    1. Sounds like you hold to something like soul sleep, which is the perspective of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church and Jehovah's Witnesses. The historic Christian view is that the disembodied spirits of believers are kept in Heaven with the LORD until the future resurrection. The spirits of believers are not unconscious either according to the Scriptural record.

      I'm familiar with the arguments for soul sleep, which often stem from verses such as found in Ecclesiastes 9 and so forth, but I don't think they paint a complete picture. The body sleeps in death, awaiting the resurrection, but the spirit is very much alive.

      We do possess the Holy Spirit, but we also have our own spirit, as do all creatures.

      1. We see both wicked and righteous human spirits held in Hades pre-resurrection of Christ who are very much conscious (Lk. 16:19-31; Ps. 49:15; prob. also Lk. 23:43; 1 Pt. 3:19-20; 1 Sam. 28:1-25).

      2. We see disembodied non-human spirits / demons held on earth before the judgment (Mt. 8:28-31, etc).

      3. We see disembodied righteous human spirits post-resurrection of Christ in Heaven (Rev. 6:9-11; Rev. 20:4; prob. also Acts 7:59; 2 Cor. 12:1-4, etc).

      4. Finally, we are given confident assurance that disembodied believers pre-resurrection are with the LORD (2 Cor. 5:8; 1 Thess. 4:14). If being in the manifest presence of the LORD isn't Heaven, I don't know what is. The LORD's throne is in Heaven (Acts 7:49; Rev. 4-5).

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    2. I am neither a SDA neither a JW.

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    3. Cool. I didn't assume so. Just pointing out that's what they tend to believe.

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  12. Very good! Shows me you guys are very thoughtful and I can trust your thinking through things, which makes me confident in your observations about the rapture being very soon, which makes me come back to...give me more about his soon coming! Sorry, but I think I have become unhealthy in how much I look forward to reading about new insights about why His Return is so soon! And how I wish the insights would come every three or four days, which I know is unreasonable, but I sure wish was possible. So much for a little levity..thanks for your insights..

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    1. Thank you!! Maranatha. I'm ready to go HOME.

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    2. Last night I was looking at the stars just after total sunset. High in the sky are Jupiter followed by Saturn and finally Venus closer to the horizon and just behind the sun.

      Venus is the brightest of the three and known as the bright morning star. Jesus compared Himself to the heavenly bright morning star,

      16 "I, Jesus, have sent my
      angel to testify to you about
      these things for the churches.
      I am the root and the descendant
      of David, the bright morning
      star."

      RED LETTERS (Revelation 22:16 ESV)


      The astronomical bright morning star, Venus, occurs when Venus rises before the sun in the east. Today Venus sets after the sun in the west but not for long. Venus is about to arc around, appearing to turn, and track back toward the Sun until early January when it will pass to the morning side of our star and once again be the bright morning star.

      In Christ's letters to the churches we see His message to the church in Thyatira,

      25 "'Only hold fast what you
      have until I come.

      26 The one who conquers and
      who keeps my works until the
      end, to him I will give
      authority over the nations,

      27 and he will rule them
      with a rod of iron, as when
      earthen pots are broken in
      pieces, even as I myself
      have received authority
      from my Father.

      28 And I will give him the
      morning star.'"

      (Revelation 2:25-28 ESV)


      A clear reference to the resurrection/rapture? I think so. (Revelation 12:5 ESV) A clear reference to a time frame during which He will come? Perhaps!

      The Bethlehem Star or conjunction of Jupiter and Venus will occur on the new moon of 4/30/22 -- the same day as a partial solar eclipse at the southern tip of the Americas.

      Pesach (Passover) and Shavuot (Pentecost) will both dawn with the rise of the bright morning star (Venus) this coming year.

      Just a couple of months away. An eternity to some I know, especially for those who have been watching and waiting for so long. I get that and pray for you daily, I really do.

      We are in the season of planting the winter wheat. It is planted in autumn as it has to be in the cold ground to develop strong roots and be ready to put massive energy into growing strong shoots that sprout fruit. Seeds for the next generation! Without the hardship of winter it would not be fruitful.

      So it is with us to endure hardship that we may bear fruit in the day and days to come. To the Day of the Great Harvest.

      When is that harvest? When is winter wheat gathered into the barns? It is gathered in the early summer -- a time where we find the Feast of Weeks, Shavuot, Pentecost. The Day the Torah was given at Mt Horeb (Sinai). The Day the Spirit was poured out on the saints and the Church was conceived.

      I find this most interesting, according to Torahcalendar.com Pentecost is on the 78th anniversary of the allied landings in Normandy (D-Day) or 6/6/2022. Pentecost on the Christian calendar is on 6/5/2022 while Chabad.org has Shavuot 2022 beginning at sundown on Shabbat, June 4, and concludes at nightfall on Monday, June 6.

      A wonderful Day to go Home? Any day is a Great Day to go Home! But Pentecost, 2022 is certainly a day worthy of study as a potential day of our Blessed Hope. A day that will be graced by the bright morning star -- promised to us by Jesus Himself!

      Blessings

      Delete
  13. "the result of faith unto salvation is the indwelling Holy Spirit who regenerates our dead spirits and unites us to Christ."
    To me, exceptions are exceptions. The aborted children, et al. All of the innocent children and mentally-handicapped individuals.
    I am thinking this applies to all innocent children - whether an unbelieving parent or a believing parent in this age of grace.
    The verse on you and your household shall be saved as a reason for the children of a believing parent going in the rapture - but not children of unbelieving parents - to me would be a decision made by an unjust God who would not take children of unbelieving parents in the rapture. Doesn't the Apostle Paul say something like how do you know your mate will believe (in context to how I see this) in not remaining in a marriage compared to a person living in peace? (Thus, being given this option for ex. to those in an abusive marriage). I have seen it more like how Jack Kelley had said, and others - that the unbelieving spouse and the children will be given more opportunities to hear the gospel and to believe in it, because of the believing parent or the believing spouse as an act of mercy and the grace of God. Not, in that they are or will be saved.
    Because,then, where is personal choice for an unbelieving spouse?
    I can see the timing of it varying regarding children - but they would fall into a group somewhere/somehow just as the Old Testament saints who are resurrected after the Tribulation.
    In other words, all children are innocent just as those mentally-handicapped adults who cannot decide to exercise the faith that God gives each of us to believe.
    In essence, these innocent children and mentally-handicapped people are not judged one way or another. They are already his. There is no decision they need to make at any point in time. This would be God's decision.

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    1. But it comes down to what exceptions Scripture actually gives us. All have fallen short. None are "innocent." Children have no iniquity, but they do have sin. All have sinned. This is what Scripture says. If children were innocent of sin they would not die. Death only occurs because of SIN. Jesus, who was the only innocent man, would never have died except that He offered Himself freely in our stead. All children need Jesus. Children are more blessed in that they have no guile, no rejection of Christ. They want to have faith in and dependence on someone else. They are fit for Heaven as soon as God grants them the faith they need. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. None can be saved without faith Christ.

      Like you I believe all little children and impaired will be saved, but it's just a matter of timing. Those *in* Christ / connected to the body of Christ, the Church, will, I believe, be resurrected and taken to Heaven at the rapture. Those who are not of the body will be resurrected at a later time (post-Trib or post-Millennium Rev. 20).

      Delete
  14. “For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.”
    Romans7:9

    His spirit was alive to God until he knew right from wrong, as a child.

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    1. I believe what Paul is saying here is that there was a time he reckoned himself alive. He thought he was good. But once he was exposed to the mirror that is the law he realized he's not good.

      Scripture is clear that all have fallen short. All have sinned. No one is good. No one is righteous, not even one. There are no exceptions to this rule.

      Paul elsewhere teaches that those not under the law are still in sin (e.g., Rom. 1:18-32; Rom. 2:12, 14-15).

      Delete
    2. We might want to consider 2 Samuel 12:22-23...implies David's baby went to heaven before it could believe possibly being set apart by David's belief

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    3. Something I thought of as well Michael. Good catch!

      Delete
  15. At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, ... Matthew 18:1-14. Jesus spoke many times about the Faith of children.A Faith in Christ that saves.

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    1. Children are guileless and so naturally full of faith, which is why I believe all little children and impaired will ultimately be saved.

      Delete
    2. We might want to consider 2 Samuel 12:22-23...seems to be implying David's baby was in heaven before being able to believe possibly set apart or saved by David's belief in the Lord

      Delete
  16. Great article, definitely a lot to think over. I've always felt that the children of unbelievers will be raptured as well. The Tribulation will be unlike anything else in human history, as we all know. The Mark of the Beast will cause those who take it to lose the ability to be saved and go to heaven. Revelation 13:16 states the antichrist will make both small and great receive the mark, so I could see unbelievers (if their children were on earth) make their children take the mark and therefore take away their ability to make a decision for Christ for themselves. This doesn't seem reasonable for me for God to allow. I could be wrong of course. Maybe after the rapture people will be unable to conceive? God opens and closes the womb.

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    1. I totally agree! Parents would have their children take the mark with them so they can eat. They will not want to watch their children starve to death! And then the bible says those who take the mark can't make it to heaven. That wouldn't be fair to the children. During the flood they didn't have that choice. So I believe because of this they would have to be raptured instead of going through this

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  17. Great article, definitely a lot to think over. I've always felt that the children of unbelievers will be raptured as well. The Tribulation will be unlike anything else in human history, as we all know. The Mark of the Beast will cause those who take it to lose the ability to be saved and go to heaven. Revelation 13:16 states the antichrist will make both small and great receive the mark, so I could see unbelievers (if their children were on earth) make their children take the mark and therefore take away their ability to make a decision for Christ for themselves. This doesn't seem reasonable for me for God to allow. I could be wrong of course. Maybe after the rapture people will be unable to conceive? God opens and closes the womb.

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    1. People will be able to conceive after the rapture. Luke 21:23.

      Delete
  18. Another theory is that during the Flood and Sodom judgements that the DNA of humans was corrupted by the Nephlim and the Giants on earth. During the flood Noah and his family had pure DNA, thus they were the only ones saved in order to preserve the bloodline of humans. Same thing with Sodom and Gomorrah where only Lot and his family were saved.
    I think what happens with children is they all get taken up during the rapture, but are not given resurrected bodies like the believers do at the rapture. All the Children that have been aborted or died before the age of accountability are in heaven right now but are still young kids. I think during the millennium, they will be put back out earth in mortal bodies and be able to grow up just like kids do today. They will then get the opportunity to believe in Christ or not during this 1000 year period. Sadly some probably will not chose him, but most will in my opinion.
    I think everyone ever born has to make that choice at one time or another in their lives. God gave us all free will to choose to follow him or go the other way. He does not want anyone to be forced into it.

    Kyle

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  19. Another theory is that during the Flood and Sodom judgements that the DNA of humans was corrupted by the Nephlim and the Giants on earth. During the flood Noah and his family had pure DNA, thus they were the only ones saved in order to preserve the bloodline of humans. Same thing with Sodom and Gomorrah where only Lot and his family were saved.
    I think what happens with children is they all get taken up during the rapture, but are not given resurrected bodies like the believers do at the rapture. All the Children that have been aborted or died before the age of accountability are in heaven right now but are still young kids. I think during the millennium, they will be put back out earth in mortal bodies and be able to grow up just like kids do today. They will then get the opportunity to believe in Christ or not during this 1000 year period. Sadly some probably will not chose him, but most will in my opinion.
    I think everyone ever born has to make that choice at one time or another in their lives. God gave us all free will to choose to follow him or go the other way. He does not want anyone to be forced into it.

    Kyle

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  20. This is an issue that is near and dear to my heart.

    First, let me say that we must not confuse Earthly Salvation with Heavenly Salvation. I find myself very much in agreement with what Heather said. Except for that luckiest last generation of the Rapture, we know that all men are destined to die in the body. Likewise, children who died in the Flood did not die any more horribly than children who may have drowned before those days. Let's not assume that they won't find their way to Heaven, when all evidence to the contrary points to the real possibility that their unbelieving parents would've doomed them with wicked teaching after the Age of Accountability. As she said above, some may have been saved BY the Flood.

    I also agree with her premise that Noah and Lot were meant to return. They were Saved for a time only. And it would be an interesting plot twist, indeed, if Lot's daughters or Noah's sons had later lost their Eternal Salvation.

    But moving on, let's say this: Before the Age of Accountability, it does not matter whether or not a child sins, recognizes good or evil, or calls on Christ. Saved Christians still sin. A good family dog can recognize good and evil. And the worst demons know what Jesus is about. The Age of Accountability is about delineating between those who fully understand their situation enough to make an informed choice. It's kind of like asking them who they'll want to marry when they're older. Who they'll want to spend their Earthly life with, for what seems to them like "eternity." And the answers given in childhood will vary dramatically from the answers they'll give in their naive teens, or their lonely 80's. They must understand the gravity and nuance, to the extent that they're willing or able to try. Without that, they have nothing but Blind Faith to go on, and before the Age of Accountability, that will suffice.

    We know for certain that our Father WILL judge us fairly as individuals. And I believe that He will base that judgment on what we have shown in the past and present tenses. He knows our future, as well, but I agree with Gary that He will not judge on precognition. He does not need to.

    (continued below)

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  21. No matter what Earthly difficulty is presenting itself, flood or fallout, we should not expect to be released from it without explicit guidance from the Him or His Word. We tarry on, and we carry on. And in so doing, we make a case for our Eternal Reward.

    The Rapture is one example of an explicitly described escape. So will children, before the Age of Accountability, be Raptured? I say YES, because they lack the capability to exercise informed consent. They are NOT innocent per se, but, likewise, cannot be held liable for rejecting something they could not have sufficiently wrestled with. After that Age, all bets are off. All adults have the knowledge of their Maker written in their hearts, and in the Creation around them. There is no excuse for laziness or shortsightedness.

    Regarding the children living during the Great Tribulation, I tend to think that Dispensations must be taken into account for each person and each time, just as for nations. The Lord is a big fan of hidden and complex truth, and He has plans and purposes for all. But I would be loathe to attack this with either logic or verse. Some ways seem wise to me, but when it comes to the proper application of Judgment, or the definition of Innocence, or "Kids with the Mark," I am glad that He's in charge.

    Even if we believe that all children under the Age will be Raptured, we also know that more will be born into Tribulation. We might assume too much to think that ALL of those children will die by the End. If they have, they are weighed by the above criteria. But having endured, is it not possible that MANY of them will live to see the Lord's return, and in so doing, they will ALL accept Jesus as their Savior? Who knows what is possible on the Day of the Lord?

    The issue seems fairly simple, now that I've come to it. When death or the Rapture come, you are Eternally Saved before the Age of Accountability, which I believe to be specific to each person, by ability. (Some may never reach it.) You are Eternally Judged, according to your choice, after the Age is reached. Your Earthly sufferings and paths can only inform your decision-making, and cannot determine your final destination. And for those in doubt, it is better to emulate the Blind Faith of a child. If you are still left standing after the Tribulation, and yet still a child . . . well done! Walk towards the redeeming light, and breathe a sigh of relief. Take comfort in knowing that you now understand more than I ever did!

    Jeremy

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  22. >Gary:
    >
    >Reconciling 1. faith is necessary, 2. all have fallen short, 3. but God is just

    I would respectfully add 4. Mercy and Grace

    He is a far better judge than any of us will ever be, for we see only the outward appearance. We have no ability (nor right) to speak about another's heart or temporal path (their future victory or failure in Christ).

    God's judgment is complete and accurate, but this does not deny His Grace and Mercy and Love.

    The whole reason for Christ on the Cross to begin with, which was the solution laid down before we even walked the earth or were born.

    We are all condemned at birth. Good news! He paid the price. You need only believe He is who He says He is, and receive the Gift He has made available to all of us.

    Christ died for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2), but unfortunately not all will receive it.

    He knows who will accept it, and who won't regardless of condition of health and body, child or mentally impaired, etc.

    Everyone is presented with the truth in some way before their death I believe for the most part, aside from things like abortion etc. Those hypothetical natives on a remote island have the witness of creation and the heavens above them to give them a clue, among other things... (Psalm 19:1-4)

    So when God presents Himself to someone in the Spirit at some level in some way, and gives them a gift of faith to use to chose Him or to reject Him, this is how it comes to be that everyone is without excuse.

    He is the Sower of the Seed... tossing them onto the different soils.

    This gift of faith (a seed) is the one thing He gives EVERYONE! And Salvation He would give everyone, but can't because of their choice to receive it or reject it.

    I don't think this side of Glory we can know fully how God handles special circumstances. That is done in the Spirit no less, so....

    Something to consider about young children, is how easier it is for them to believe than it is for an adult. :) Kind of gives you a hint.

    Children are taught to be hateful, and racial, and all the more less-than mature and developed concepts.

    Great article Gary. ;)

    🚫 🍇

    ·····|\︵/|··
    ··╱ɷ ɷ╲··
    ··╲\▼/╱··

    Foxman on the Wall

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  23. Gary, by your argument, the unborn who are miscarried or aborted on up through children, until they actually understand and make a choice for Christ, are doomed to eternal damnation!
    You said there are no verses to support children not having to be saved by faith in Christ.
    How about Matthew 18:10 and Romans 7:9?
    The Bible says that children already BELONG to Christ.
    God says that children too young to make an understood choice BELONG TO HIM.
    They are innocent of their sins until they are old enough to understand them as sin as well as the consequences.
    Do you really believe that God consigns the unborn and children to HELL for eternity - cuz it's the SAME thing you're arguing?
    * * * * *
    Since children already belong to God, WHY would He make them endure His wrath throughout the Tribulation?
    You mentioned the reasons FOR the Tribulation – which one fits with God’s children being left behind to endure such a time? An horrific event they cannot possibly understand… and for which they do not qualify.
    Believers belong to God and will go in the Rapture of the Church.
    Children belong to God – so they don’t???
    What part of that makes sense?
    * * * * *
    You also mentioned children not being spared during catastrophic events such as the Flood and Sodom & Gomorrah. Everyone was killed, either in the cities or on earth. Albeit, there is a HUGE difference between being killed and where one spends eternity. There’s nothing to say that the children did NOT go to heaven to be with the Lord when they died. And, according to the verses given above they would have.
    But, the Rapture of the Church is a one off event – it is only a catastrophe for those who do NOT belong to God!
    Children DO belong to God.
    He doesn't need to bring them BACK to Him - they're already His.

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    1. "Gary, by your argument, the unborn who are miscarried or aborted on up through children, until they actually understand and make a choice for Christ, are doomed to eternal damnation!"

      That's not what I argued at all, actually. Just the opposite. I take it you didn't actually read what I wrote, but are responding to a straw-man argument you have concocted.

      I won't respond to the rest, for that reason. In order to discuss an issue you have to first hear and understand what the other person is saying. I will though respond to your use of Matthew 18:10 and Romans 7:9.

      You said: "The Bible says that children already BELONG to Christ."

      No, actually it does not say that. Anywhere. To the contrary, Scripture makes it crystal clear, without exception, that ALL have fallen short, NONE are good, NONE are righteous, ALL are dead in their trespasses and sins, and JESUS is the Savior of ALL. God has laid on Him the sins of us ALL. NO ONE is worthy, but Christ alone. That is what Scripture says and I'll show multiple number and verse for each one.

      Matthew 18:10 simply says don't despise little children because they have angels (heavenly messengers) who see God's face and will defend their cause. It doesn't say children are innocent. It doesn't say children are saved just because they are children. And it doesn't say children are sinless. Children have sin and needed Jesus to die for them like we all do. What little children don't have is iniquity and guile. For that reason I believe they will all be saved (which is what I repeatedly wrote in my article).

      Regarding Romans 7:9: I believe what Paul is saying here is that there was a time he reckoned himself alive. He thought he was good. But once he was exposed to the mirror that is the law he realized he's not good.

      Scripture is clear that all have fallen short. All have sinned. No one is good. No one is righteous, not even one. There are no exceptions to this rule.

      Paul elsewhere teaches that those not under the law are still in sin (e.g., Rom. 1:18-32; Rom. 2:12, 14-15). Christ alone was born sinless.

      Blessings.

      Delete
    2. Yes, Jenny, agree with you 100%. Children of unbelievers belong to God just as much as children of believers as they are ALL guileless even though born into a sinful world, still not having learned right from wrong or a real sense of morality. At this moment it is my belief that there are no children (or their souls) in hell. I believe the crux of this discussion is whether any children will be judged at a later date. If they are all guileless, as I believe they all are, then there is nothing to judge. Those children who have died in any dispensation, whether aborted or otherwise, their souls belong to God and will go back to Him.

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    3. Gary, I DID read what you wrote.
      I was trying to address what you wrote.
      You pretty much said it could go either way because we cannot know for sure.
      * * * *
      About Romans 7:9 - at one point in his life Paul realized and understood himself to BE a sinner. He was referring to the spiritual death that comes from knowing and understanding sin. He knew the rules (the Law) and could make an aware choice of whether to obey them or not.
      Sort of like when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of Knowledge - from that point on they knew sin. Before that time they were innocent.
      Of course, unlike Adam & Eve, children are born with a sin nature and yes, they do wrong things.
      But, at what point in their lives are they held accountable for those misdeeds?
      God held Adam & Eve accountable the moment they knowingly sinned.
      Having an inherent sin nature and really KNOWING you are sinning are two very different things!
      Being born with a sin nature holds with scripture saying we are ALL sinners, not good, not righteous (Romans 3:23 and LOTS more).
      Children not being aware of their actions as sinful, and therefore not accountable for them as such, is supported by Romans 7:9.



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    4. I'll trust you that you read it, but then how can you say this:

      "You pretty much said it could go either way because we cannot know for sure."

      That's not what I said at all. This is a straw-man.

      To the contrary, I said exactly the opposite. I said, repeatedly, we can be sure. I said these children are the elect because God will give them the faith necessary. They were chosen in Him before the creation of the world.

      That said, I'm taking issue with an arbitrary age of accountability which has no prooftext in Scripture and seems to deny more important truths:

      1. Jesus is the only way. He died for all. He rose for all.

      2. No one can come to Him unless the Father first draws him (Jn. 6:44).

      3. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. Faith is a requirement for all.

      4. All have sinned. All have fallen short. No one is good. No one is righteous.

      5. There is a distinction between sin (which all have and doesn't equate to guilt) and iniquity (which not all have).

      Blessings.

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  24. God predestined all to come to repentance. “Those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His son.” Who did God foreknow? All people. Everyone has the opportunity. That is why predestination and free will go hand in hand.

    On the subject at hand, let us not forget God is a PERFECT judge…

    It’s plain in many places, but specifically Romans 2:12:

    “For all who sin without the law will also perish without the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.”

    What this is saying is that all who live a life without the knowledge of the law, will die without it, (and therefore not be under it or judged according to it.)

    A simple analogy would be, most companies you work for usually have you read a code of conduct or requirements that outlines what kind of conduct they will or won’t tolerate. Usually an employee signs one of these when they start. Now if you started that same job and they fired you over something they never told you about, that wouldn’t be very fair or just, would it??

    Jesus backs this up in the gospel of Luke:

    “And that servant who knew his master’s will and didn’t prepare himself or do it will be severely beaten. But the one who did not know and did what deserved punishment will receive a light beating. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, even more will be expected.”
    ‭‭Luke 12:47-48

    So anyone who passes without TRULY having the chance to hear the truth about, cannot be judged for sins they didn’t know they were committing. Which is why children up to that age of understanding will be saved.

    Now, you and me? We are without excuse, because we have been told:

    “For his invisible attributes, that is, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what he has made. As a result, people are without excuse. For though they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became worthless, and their senseless hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:20-22‬

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    1. I think - and I could be mistaken - that we are basically saying the same thing, but probably approaching it from a slightly different angle.

      On the one hand, I'm taking issue with 1. an arbitrary age of accountability, which isn't based on any scripture outside of types and shadows from the OT Law; children will be saved, but not because of an arbitrary age of accountability. People are different. Some understand the need for atonement when they four. Some when they are seven. God knows the secret thoughts of all. He is the righteous judge. And, 2. I'm taking issue with many who are denying what Scripture plainly says that ALL have fallen short, NONE are good, NONE are righteous, ALL have sinned, ALL need atonement, without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. These are universal truths. Faith in Jesus is a requirement for all. A denial of this is to say Jesus isn't the only way.

      On the other hand, I'm also taking issue with many of those with a Reformed or Catholic bent who actually think children and impaired will be condemned even though they have no iniquity and no ability to believe.

      I think both sides are a little bit off base. God will save to the uttermost, but not all will be saved as universal reconciliation teaches. Scripture is clear many will ultimately be destroyed.

      So, again, I think I largely agree with you. I might take a bit of issue with that opening paragraph though:


      "God predestined all to come to repentance."

      To the contrary, He predestined the elect to come to repentance. Not all are the elect.


      “Those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His son.” Who did God foreknow? All people.

      Scripture seems to say just the opposite: Mt. 7:23; 25:12; Lk. 13:25, 27; Jn. 10:14-16; etc...


      "Everyone has the opportunity."

      This I agree with as I shared in my article. There's a first chance for all. Just not a second chance as universal reconciliation teaches. The Bible is clear about the irrevocable fate of the wicked. To be clear: I'm a conditionalist like Dr. David Reagan, John Stott, Edward Fudge, and the early Church (see here).


      "That is why predestination and free will go hand in hand."

      Amen. God is both completely sovereign, but we also have free will. Both can be true.

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  25. Thanks for the reply, Gary. I was certainly not trying to say you were wrong in anyway! Apologies if it came across that way at all.

    I will take your thoughts on God not fore-knowing everyone and study it. I initially have a very hard time reconciling Psalm 139 with that idea along with many other places in scripture.

    All of the verses you shared seem to speak of a deeper relational understanding. That kind of knowing someone intimately. That’s why I believe there will be many that think they are Christians, because they “know” Jesus as the demons also “know” Jesus, but they will be cast away because they didn’t have a real intimate relationship with Jesus.

    Kind of like being married and never talking to or hanging out with your spouse. Wouldn’t last very long, and you wouldn’t really know them.

    Thanks again though. Really appreciate all you do here on Unsealed.

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    1. Hey brother! I didn't take it that way one bit. I really appreciate your well-reasoned thoughts and I think we largely agree.

      I totally believe in God's omniscience. He knows all things and all people in the intellectual sense of knowing. But I think "those He foreknew" is dealing with the same intimate knowing that equates to relationship and salvation. As Mt. 7:23, 25:12, Lk. 13:25, 27, and Jn. 10:14-16 allude to, there are those who are not known by Him in the relational, intimate sense. They are His enemies. In the OT to "know" your wife meant to be intimate with her. To be known by God is to be His child - to be His.

      Blessings!!!

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  26. Thank you, Gary, for the reasoned, Biblically literate article on a very hot topic! That's the way to get all of us to dig deeper into the Word, and consider things we have never considered before, bringing them to God for more understanding. I appreciate all the studies you and the team present to us. Your hard work is greatly valued. Thank you also, for your replies in this thread as it has helped to clarify some things for me. I have learned a great deal. Blessings to all of this family-Vicki

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  27. I don't believe in an "arbitrary" Age of Accountability. I believe in an Age of Accountability that is highly personal, and specific to the individual. It's not about the number at all, but the threshold of understanding and decision-making capability.

    Before that mark is reached, I believe that a child (or childlike adult) will be Saved at death or Rapture. Not because of their INNOCENCE (they are not), but because of their IGNORANCE. It is the state of naivete which we often refer to as "childlike faith." And I have to believe that it will suffice. I have to believe that this is why Jesus calls them "His children" so often in the scriptures. I have to believe that this is why it is BLESSED to have faith such as these.

    I would be sadly incredulous to find a Christian who believed that you could have both Damnation for the Young Child, and also the Free Will to choose your destination. A decision cannot be valid if you don't see the options for what they are. Free Will, by God's own rules, would DEMAND the right to understand your situation. And children do not. Most of them wander through their early years struggling with the decision between the Cheeseburger Happy Meal and the Chicken McNugget Happy Meal. And more often than not, their concept of responsibility and repercussion falls apart at the request to regularly flush a toilet or pick their underwear up off the floor.

    That said, I have often looked at my kids and thought that, from a 3rd person perspective, they are just way better people than me. Not completely innocent, of course, but so unencumbered by years of sin, mistake, and poor decision-making. They are better people than me, and I don't mind that one bit. (Do NOT tell them that I said that!)

    Jeremy

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    1. Thanks Jeremy. This is basically what I believe and what I'm saying. I would just add that faith is necessary. I believe, free from the sinful flesh and its limitations, a child's spirit will be given the faith for regeneration. We're conceived as spiritual stillborns, meaning that we're already dead upon entering the world (thanks to the spiritual death in Eden).

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  28. I guess we will just have to let God work it all out in the end. He will do what is right in His own eyes, as He is the creator of heaven and earth, and everything in it.

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  29. Gary,
    Thank you for digging into this very difficult subject. I always respect what you say and can tell that it comes from lots of study. You’ve got our juices flowing on this one so thanks for addressing it.

    I have one issue. You say that faith is a gift from God. I have a problem seeing that saving faith is a gift from God. To me Eph 2 is saying that salvation or eternal life is a gift from God, not faith. Faith is the one thing that is required of man in order to be saved. Not works but faith. If we don’t have faith we will remain condemned. If saving faith is a gift from God and God chooses not to give me faith, how can He be a just God in condemning me to hell for rejecting Him when I really never had a chance anyway since He chose not to give me faith? It was His fault for not giving me faith! See? That doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    I do see that those who are already saved are given different measures of faith.

    So I have a hard time seeing that God will give children or mentally impaired adults faith either. But I do believe they will go to heaven by His grace they are safe, not saved. They won’t be part of the body of Christ because they have never had the opportunity to be saved. Will they ever have that opportunity? I don’t know. I hope so. But even if they don’t, they will still be safely with us in heaven possibly as a friend of the bridegroom. Or possibly be a different class of resident in heaven. Not lower, just different.

    What do you think?

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    3. I think Scripture teaches that it's all a gift.

      The fact that we live is a gift. We didn't do anything to live. God made us as an act of grace.

      Grace is a gift. We don't deserve it. God gives it freely.

      Faith is a gift. No one can come to God unless He draws him. Faith is the gift of God according to Eph. 2:8-9 and other passages: Jn. 6:44; Acts 11:18; 13:48; 16:14; Rom. 12:3; 1 Cor. 12:9; etc.

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  30. I wanted to add a word of hope, specifically for today and tomorrow, by recognizing what I believe to be a seeming convergence of prophetic importance.

    I have posted in the past about the correlation between the Rapture and Tribulation timelines and the Strong's Concordance matches. Type the Gregorian calendar years 2020-2030 into Strong's Hebrew and Greek Lexicons, and you will see patterns emerging. (I do not pretend to be the discoverer of this truth.)

    Rather than find my earlier posts and reprint them, this more recent page that I found talks about the same:

    http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2021/luisv81.htm

    I should also stress that there appears to be a similar pattern when you enter the Hebrew years into the Hebrew concordance, for the Jewish nation. 5780-5790. (I especially like the fact that the Hebrew year starting this very month in October 2021 equates to "rouse oneself, awake." This is what the Jews will be doing if the Rapture happens for Christians BEFORE the end of 2021, as the author suggests.)

    Additionally, I would like to reference what Lyn has posted, if she doesn't mind. A thank you to her for this tidbit:

    "In Revelation 7, it is said of the multitude waving palm branches before God’s throne, “Never again will they … thirst” (7:16). It was on the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles that Jesus stood and cried out, “If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink” (John 7:37)."

    And finally, I would like to draw the two conversations together.

    Recall, for a moment, Gary and Jeff's excellent article on the chiastic nature of the Holy Scriptures. (Thank you, guys.)

    If we can agree that the central theme in the Bible is the Grace and Mercy made possible by Jesus fulfilling the first 3 Feasts in order . . . and if we can agree that the 4th Feast of Pentecost is the pivotal moment, or hinge, upon which the Holy Spirit, Church, and message of Redemption swing . . . then I repeat my proposal from a few weeks ago that perhaps the last 3 Fall Feasts are fulfilled in reverse order. The Spring and Fall Feasts point to the central 4th Feast, just as a Menorah points to the tallest candlestick.

    Once the Creation and Deliverance of the Church were made manifest on Pentecost, we might now look for the next prophetic event to be recognized on the Feast of Tabernacles. After all, Tabernacles is all about a group of forgiven and holy people spending 7 with the Lord. And Lyn's re-quote above does point very clearly to our thirst being quenched on the "Last Day" of the Feast of Tabernacles . . . which, on the corrected equinox calendar, is:

    OCTOBER 27th-29th, 2021 (depending on whether or not you count Shemini Atzeret as the added-on 8th day).

    *Assuming* that the Rapture is the next Feast fulfillment, the ONLY way that it could honor:

    the statement made by Jesus on the "Last Day" . . .

    the reversed order of the Fall Feasts on the Last Day of Tabernacles . . .

    the Hebrew and Greek concordance references to 2021 as the year of Christians being taken ("I take in hand" and "chariots") . . .

    and the Hebrew concordance reference to 5782 as the year of Jews being awakened ("rouse oneself, awake") . . .

    is to have a Rapture TODAY or TOMORROW.

    And if somehow a covenant were made on the morning of November 1st this year, an incomplete theory that I've poked at many times before, owing to its historic past and future layout, we would still see the Tribulation concluded before Israel turns 81.

    Does this mean that we're gone before the Pope can talk about his 7-year deal with Mother Earth again this weekend? Or before the "many" can join that agenda at COP26 also starting this weekend? Who knows? I might be wrong about everything. But as long as we have Jesus, we have continuous hope, and I plan to stretch my legs and exercise that hope every single day if I have to!

    Jeremy

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    1. That would be awesome. I'm feeling so weak today my knees are buckling. Ready to trade in this old bag of bones.

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  31. It is interesting to note however, that Jesus noted that it would be difficult for women who are nursing or pregnant during the tribulation. This implies that they got pregnant after the Rapture. So perhaps babies are taken at the Rapture. Also is interesting to note that the only people who were raised back to life in the Bible were believers and children. Believers in Messiah to come or Believers in Christ and children 12 years old and younger. So perhaps children are taken at the rapture.

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    1. Just a thought: if we believe that the age of accountability is 12, doesn't that mean children who are old enough to disbelieve in Jesus and reject are still saved? How can that be reconciled with what we read in the Bible: all have fallen short of God's glory, no one is righteous, no one is good, all need His atonement, He is the Savior of all.

      To me the key is iniquity (willful sin) and the ability to believe. If someone has the ability/capacity to believe and willfully sin, then don't they need to believe in Jesus to be saved?

      If they do not have the capacity, which varies per person, then they couldn't believe or reject, and therefore are guileless. These still have sin and needed Jesus to die for them, but I believe God will save them after death when they are given the faith necessary to believe in Jesus.

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    2. Its not a set age, it varies between children. Its when their spirits know right from wrong and they make a choice.

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  32. This is off topic, but something that I feel the need to bring up. Has anyone read the book ‘Almost a Christian’ by Matthew Mead? He was a Puritan writing in the 1600’s, and delivers the kind of hard message seldom heard these days, but that alone doesn’t mean there isn’t truth in it. This is a HARD book that leads to heavy self-examination, and could be found comforting only to the least handful of people. But as the book drives home, even that handful could be deluded and direly wrong.

    After reading, “Narrow is the way, and few shall find it” has a whole new meaning. There’s plenty of rightful warning and criticism pointed at the modern day church in general, and more liberal denominations in particular, but this book turns even those perspectives on their head, and points a questioning gaze at salvational criteria that most of us have long taken for granted.

    After the searing light cast by this book, one could imagine the Rapture being a far less catastrophic event for the structure of the left-behind world. But of course, there would be tremendous masses of once sure people, in an absolute panic.

    Just wondering if any others here have read this or similar books, and how they were affected. Is there a strong possibility that true salvation has a much finer degree of definition than we’ve come to believe in modern times? I’m not talking about “works based” theology, but something that minnows down to the very core of who we are…or worse, ASSUME we are.

    DW

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  33. This is off the subject but could I ask for prayers? The enemy is attacking in so many ways and I am so weary....I feel like I'm on the edge of a cliff. I could use some extra prayer... I need peace and to feel hope. I cling to Jesus, I have known Him so long yet I'm here at this point. I realize others have much worse problems but God still cares about mine, yes? Please help me, please intercede for me if you feel led.

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    1. Sweet Nan, praying for you sister. We're going home SOON.

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    2. Thank you, it means more than I can express. I in turn ask God to bless each of you as well.

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    3. Thank you Gary...I pray it's so soon...I ask God to bless you as well.

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    4. I'll be praying for you, Nan.

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    6. God bless you...I really need it.

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  34. I believe that that there is an age of accountability but it is much lower than 12 or 13. My older brother was that age when he ridiculed me as I was going off to Sunday school. I think the age is probably between 5 and 8. I must differ with something I read before. All people who died before the day of Pentecost, all the OT saints, Moses, Abraham etc. as well as children who God deems worthy to enter the millenial kingdom after the tribulation will be raised in the first resurrection- Rev. 20:5,6. Everyone after Pentecost who are saved will participate in the Rapture.

    Also on the topic of "soul sleep", I have never actually seen that phrase in scripture but if your going to label it its as good as any.

    First of all I dont belong to any denomination or church, im an independent researcher.

    There is great misunderstanding as to what the word soul in the bible means. First of all I would like to say what its not. It is NOT an incorporeal essence that is eternal and lives on after death. This concept of the immortal soul was adopted from greek mythology sometime after the first century. Here are some scriptures.

    In Genesis 2:7 it says that after God formed Adams body that God breathed the "breath of life into Adam and man became a living soul". The soul is simply that which animates our physical bodies, when the soul dies we die. It has nothing to do with spirit.

    Look at Ezekiel 18:20- "The soul that sins, it (the soul) shall die". Emphasis on the last word DIE.

    Psalms 146:4- "His breath goes forth ( the breath of life) he returns to the earth, in that very day his thoughts perish". Think about this, if we are an out of body entity fluttering around in heaven would we still be capable of thinking? Yes, but it says here no.

    Psalms 6:5- "For in death there is no remembrance of you (God).(He cant remember anything because his thoughts have ceased) In the grave who shall give you thanks"?

    Check out something that Peter said after the outpouring of Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Acts 2:34- "For David is NOT ascended into heaven...29- "the patriarch David is DEAD and buried, his tomb is with us to this day".

    Ok, here come the "yeah buts". Yeah but you see Davids body was dead but his disembodied soul went up to heaven. If you choose to believe that fine but thats not what my bible says. Psalms 146:4 says that there is no thought process! Is David a disembodied drueling vegetable in an incorporeal, wispy body up there with Jesus now? Dont think so.

    Yeah but... what about Lazarus in Abrahams bosom in Luke 19:16? That is nothing more than a parable not an actual event which took place.

    I dont expect to change any minds here, people are pretty dug into their belief systems, but its what I offer for your consideration.

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    2. You raise some very good points and I respect your view. I think we have to reconcile all the verses on the topic and there are many.

      For starters, there is a very common misconception - not that you are making it at all - but I'm just pointing it out, that spirit and breath are the same thing or essentially the same thing, and that centuries of dogma and tradition concocted this invention of "soul" and/or "spirit." This is simply not a defensible view. Even looking at all the extra-biblical literature from the first few centuries before Christ (BC), the Jews already had a well developed view of souls/spirits in the afterlife before the general resurreciton.

      In both biblical Hebrew and Greek there are different words for "breath," "wind," "spirit," and "soul," etc.

      Even in Genesis 1-7 we see the distinctions very clearly.

      Hebrew:

      breath - neshamah

      soul/creature/life/self - nephesh

      spirit - ruach

      Many English translations are way off base here, conflating especially "breath" and "spirit."

      Compare for instance Genesis 6:17 and Genesis 2:7 and see how translations conflate them. Compare to translations like the LSV.

      The ruach is something incorporeal, not just air.

      - - - - - -

      Biblical Greek is similar:

      breath/wind - pnoé

      wind - anemos

      soul - psuché

      spirit - pneuma

      Now it's true that pnoé and pneuma share the same verbal root, but they are different nouns and mean different things. Pneuma exlusively means spirit, although many translators assume differently only in John 3 (unfortunately).

      - - - - - -

      My point is this: Scripture itself distinguishes in both Testaments, even in Genesis, between breath, body, soul, and spirit. God is Spirit. Surely God is not unaware even though He is, apart from the incarnation, incorporeal.

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    3. "This concept of the immortal soul was adopted from greek mythology sometime after the first century."

      This is sort of true, although Greek ideas were already prevalent in Jewish thinking before the first century. But the elephant in the room here is "immortal." The Greeks thought of an immortal soul. The Jews thought of a mortal soul and I believe that's what Scripture teaches. Jesus says that men can kill the body, but only God can destroy both SOUL and body in Gehenna (Mt. 10:28).


      "For David is NOT ascended into heaven"

      Certainly. And the reason is, as we see in Luke's account of the rich man and Lazarus, the righteous were not yet in Heaven. They were in Hades. Jesus was the first man through the heavenly gates.


      "Yeah but... what about Lazarus in Abrahams bosom in Luke 19:16? That is nothing more than a parable not an actual event which took place."

      Even if it were, it still gives Jesus' thinking about the afterlife before the general resurrection of the dead. But I can't agree with you there that it's merely a parable therefore we don't have to heed what it plainly says. It's also highly unusual for Jesus to use a specific name (Lazarus) in an illustrative parable. Maybe even the only time He does that.

      Even apart from Luke 16, we see the conscious disembodied souls of the righteous in Heaven in Rev. 6:9-11. We see scores of demons in the gospels which are disembodied spirits. We see Jesus preaching to the disembodied spirits who perished in the flood (see 1 Pt. 3:19-20). We see the spirit of Samuel very much alive, conscious, and kicking in 1 Samuel 28. Jesus committed His disembodied spirit to God at the crucifixion. Stephen did the same in Acts 7. Paul assures us - says we can BE CONFIDENT - if we are absent from the body we are present with the LORD.

      We don't just cease to exist at death. We are more than just flesh. In fact if we were only flesh and breath then we couldn't be new creatures / new creations, positionally justified through faith in Christ. Paul speaks of the inner man in Romans 7. There's the perfected part of us (spirit) and the part that's no different than before we believed (flesh).

      If there wasn't a continuance of existence/consciousness beyond death than your resurrected self wouldn't actually be *you* it would just be a clone of you with a new consciousness. That's a truly disturbing thought. Your loved ones in Heaven wouldn't be the ones you knew on earth. They would be look-alikes with the same memories and so forth, but not the same consciousness / soul. That persons existence would have been ended and a new one beginning later.

      Finally, we do have to reconcile the verses in Psalms, Ecclessiastes, and elsewhere. The Bible talks of those who sleep in death - they're not non-existent. God speaks of them as alive. Regarding Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

      There is spiritual continuance, but the bodies "sleep," knowing nothing, as they await a future resurrection.

      Blessings!

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  35. I thought I would add evidence (not proof) to the idea that the Tribulation might well be concluded in the Fall of 2028 or the Spring and Summer of 2029.

    The Strong's Concordance gives us these definitions for the Hebrew years upcoming:

    5781 (ends this month, in October 2021) . . . . . "perhaps to totter; cause tottering"

    5782 (Fall 2021-Fall 2022) . . . . . . . . . . . ."to rouse oneself, awake"

    5783 (Fall 2022-Fall 2023) . . . . . . . . . . . ."to be exposed or bare"

    5784 (Fall 2023-Fall 2024) . . . . . . . . . . . ."chaff"

    5785 (Fall 2024-Fall 2025) . . . . . . . . . . . ."a skin"

    5786 (Fall 2025-Fall 2026) . . . . . . . . . . . ."to make blind, blind" [emphasis on the act]

    5787 (Fall 2026-Fall 2027) . . . . . . . . . . . ."blind" [emphasis on the state of being]

    5788 (Fall 2027-Fall 2028) . . . . . . . . . . . ."blindness"

    5789 (Fall 2028-Fall 2029) . . . . . . . . . . . ."to lend aid, come to help"

    (It is appropriate the Hebrew year must be entered into Strong's Hebrew lexicon to address the times of the Hebrew nation.)

    Notice that the Hebrew nation and language have been brought back from virtual extinction, a miracle in every sense of the word. But the Gentiles still run the world, and will until Jesus returns.

    “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDNESS IN PART IS HAPPENED TO ISRAEL, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”

    Notice, also, that we could argue the meaning of Romans 11:25 until the red heifers come home, but everyone CAN agree that the "times" or "fulness" of the Gentiles MUST be concluded by at least the return of Jesus. And here is an article that discusses such, if it's your thing:

    https://bible.org/seriespage/8-israel-s-blindness#:~:text=The%20condition%20of%20Israel%E2%80%99s%20blindness%20is%20revealed%20to,in%20bringing%20about%20the%20fullness%20of%20the%20Gentiles.

    In conclusion, note that IF the blindness of Israel is removed after the "times" or "fulness" of the Gentiles are concluded at the end of Hebrew year 5788, it will match our Fig Tree Prophecy dates pretty decisively for a 1948-1949 rebirth.

    I see those Hebrew years above as a 7 year pattern that matches the time of Jacob's Trouble. The tottering from Covid; the rousing after the Rapture; the exposed, bare, and threadlike state of Israel before the Abomination; the skin laid bare at the Abomination; and the blindness that is removed after great WRATH; ending with AID from above.

    Jeremy

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  36. Such good stuff here I need to catch up on. But for those who are following the La Palma Island situation, today I came across what appears to be a Christian site called eyeopeningtruth.com which has been giving updated news on the La Palma Island situation by watching the Spanish News on Malaga 24h, a Youtube Channel. Here is an excerpt from today's afternoon update:

    UPDATE: 10/28/2021 1:06:38 PM Authorities Warn of LARGE EARTHQUAKE!! The island of La Palma has risen more than 16 centimeters in the last 24 hours! Landslides, STEAM ALONG the Faultline, MAG 6 EQ expected in the next few hours.

    [You can find the related hyperlinks at my article October Rapture Tsunami? URGENT UPDATE!]

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    1. OK, this will be my last mention of La Palma but I wanted to let everybody know that I added the link regarding the predictive programming video game and more info to October Rapture Tsunami? URGENT UPDATE! (and, of course, the related hyperlinks are in the original article):

      Because the Cumbre Vieja volcano on the Canary Island of La Palma has been erupting for over a month now, a politician from a nearby island has suggested bombing it to divert the rivers of lava.

      The politician's idea may seem crazy, but it has been tried before. . . While the Cumbre Vieja eruption entered its sixth week, the talk of using military aircraft to bomb lava flows and redirect them seems like a last-ditch effort as other attempts to manage the flows on the ground have been unsuccessful. zerohedge.com

      This, of course, could result in a dreadful tsunami if the missiles hit the wrong section of the island. What is even crazier is there is predictive programming of such a scenario coming to pass. I am referring especially to a 2009 video game called Secret Files 2 about which Tyler of the Generation2434 Youtube Channel posted a video on October 23. For a more in-depth video on this, check out LogicBeforeAuthority’s 19-minute video titled La Palma Predictive Programming For A Tsunami.

      The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. - Proverbs 16:4 KJV

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  37. I read Zephaniah 1, 2 and 3 yesterday and realized that it fits Revelation from beginning to millennium.

    Zephaniah 1:8-9 sounds a lot like Halloween, with strange clothing (costumes), threshold (doorway) and deceit (tricks).

    I was doing some research and came across the Apocalypse of Zephaniah. It's a Jewish text. The 1st trumpet sounds like the rapture and the 2nd sounds like La Palma with waves up to the clouds.

    Thoughts?

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    1. One thought.

      Chapter 2
      Judah Summoned to Repent

      "Gather together, gather yourselves together,
      you shameful nation,
      before the decree takes effect
      and that day passes like windblown chaff,
      before the Lord’s fierce anger
      comes upon you,
      before the day of the Lord’s wrath
      comes upon you."

      The Lord's "wrath" is often recognized as the last half of the Tribulation. And in the same verse above, we have a reference to a "day [passing] like windblown chaff" beforehand.

      Scroll a couple of boxes up from this post, to my Hebrew concordance definitions, and note that the year before the midpoint of the Tribulation is a year of "chaff."

      Jeremy

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    2. Strange clothing, threshold, and deceit have now come to torment my poor 99yr old mother who was introduced to a new AIDE, to which she said WHAT is THAT!! They've crossed the threshold of tolerance, busted down the doors and gotten right into our face. HAVE MERCY!!!

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    3. I should've added that the verses quoted above are from Zephaniah 2:1-2, from the section that you had been reading.

      Chaff . . . then Wrath.

      And those 2 verses, alone, seem to make a pretty succinct summary of everything from the return of Israel until the return of Jesus.

      Jeremy

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    4. https://www.iflscience.com/space/powerful-eruption-from-the-sun-is-due-to-hit-earth-on-halloween-weekend/

      Lyn did mention a Holly 2 Moons dream about CME's. Tabernacles is coming to an end. And world leaders are lining up this weekend for evil agendas everywhere.

      Got Lamp Oil? (a Rapture joke about the electrical grid!)

      Jeremy

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  38. https://www.livescience.com/godzilla-nebula-pareidolia

    I always thought that the dragon from Revelation 12 would be scarier. LOL

    After seeing this, I feel confident that we can occupy until the Lord returns. We just have to be more positive.

    Jeremy

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  39. Thanks for the topic Gary

    If I may, like so many facets of a Dimond.
    So also are the questions, and comments of everyone. Are all valid points of view.

    We being who we are cannot comprehend the ways of the most high as we would like.

    I like stand way back and see the big picture and perhaps understand, more.

    But we see Jesus and the parables.
    And from them we know that He buys the whole field
    to get the Treasure hidden in it and The pearl of great value, that's you and I and anyone else He wants.

    Who then is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

    And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven."

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  40. Wow! Thanks, Jeremy! Great catch! I thought the dragon would be scarier, too. 🤣 Things are usually scarier when imagined vs. reality.

    Just realized that 2020 had the first GLOBAL Halloween Blue Moon since WWII.

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  41. In Balaamic prophesy news, the cover of the next issue of Time Magazine has a two word headline:

    Last Call

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  42. I'll be honest. My wife and I work on jigsaw puzzles infrequently. But when we do, I always find myself handing her the border pieces. And once those are placed, I start handing her every other piece, while I group similar colors, shapes, themes, etc. I do NOT like to deal with the finest nuanced details or the trial-and-error shots in the dark. I don't necessarily even care about the picture, itself. I just can't stand disorder! I NEED to bring order to chaos.

    But the Rapture puzzle is a complete 180 for me. I'm not holding all of the best pieces, and I don't claim to. I have very few of my pieces organized well enough to proclaim anything as guaranteed TRUTH, as so many others do. (I do NOT want to be a false prophet.) But I've never had more fun trying to squeeze the detailed little pieces of information into the small open voids! Each piece has become a puzzle unto itself. And for once, I really enjoy trying to make sense of the Biblical clues, and trying to make it look like a complete picture . . . even when I'm smashing stuff together.

    There are some who might frown on the constant guessing and theorizing, but they're out of luck with me. I don't care what anyone else thinks. With a prize so amazing at the end of the search, I have fallen in love with trying to figure out what God's next clue might be. You might think I'm crazy, but except for my obvious desire to go to my real home, it doesn't bother me in the least to see the "watch" dates fly by. And that's because I know how few puzzle pieces are left, and how much all of you have accomplished at the table. There will always be a reason for hope, and I'm glad that none of us are alone.

    That said, here's some encouragement for the next 2 weeks from Dr. Barry Awe:

    2 Chronicles 7:10

    "And on the three and twentieth day of the seventh month he sent the people away into their tents, glad and merry in heart for the goodness that the LORD had shewed unto David, and to Solomon, and to Israel his people."

    So on the morning of the 24th day, the Jewish nation was still waking up from their LAST DAY of the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles. That is this morning, October 31st, 2021 on the corrected calendar. Hope for the next day.

    The Tribulation could start as late as November 7th, next Sunday, and we could still see the Abomination of Desolation fall on Passover 2025. And 1260 days later would be the Day of Atonement, 2028. Hope for the next week.

    Noah was told to board the Ark on the 10th day of the 2nd month. On the corrected calendar, that will be November 15th-16th, 2021. If the end truly is as the "days of Noah," then perhaps the Rapture happens then. And since the Tribulational Flood started 7 days later, maybe that will line up with the COP26 meeting of one-world goals, ending on the 12th. Even more convincing, the Pope's 7-year Laudato Si Action Plan was written during the 2015 Blood Moons, and officially launches on . . . November 14th, 2021. Just one day earlier. Interesting timing, at least. Hope for the next month.

    And I won't beat a dead horse, here, but there is SO much evidence for a Rapture in the Fall of 2021 or Spring of 2022. I would be remiss not to point out that even if we use our earliest-case start date of May 14, 1948 to begin a Fig Tree countdown of 70-80 years, we would STILL not see Israel turn 81 until May 14, 2029. And subtracting the 7 years of Jacob's Trouble would still leave a preTribulation Rapture on the table until May 14, 2022. Hope for the next year.

    So . . . DO. NOT. LOSE. HOPE! Don't give Satan the satisfaction! There are brighter skies ahead, and you'll have to look down to see them.

    Jeremy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. I deleted my other comment because since I have to translate from English to French, I saw that the word "rapture" does not mean the same thing. But I say thank you, dear brother Jeremy, for your message and I hope it will be very soon. At least that encourages us to keep going until the right moment! Be blessed!

      Delete
    3. Jeremy~Just wanted you to know how much I appreciate all your puzzle pieces. I don't get a chance to say that as often as I should to individual brethren who have contributed so many gold nuggets. VERY MUCH appreciated your above encouragement--To Our God Be the Glory ✨

      Delete
    4. Puzzled....well you have company.
      DW, Greg Lauer and few other's here are as dazed and confused also about the rapture event.
      Keep pushing dates, timelines around as much as you want and you will stay that way.

      It's all in Daniel, Revelation and Paul's letters.
      You don't have to stay Puzzled over the when where and how of the
      rapture event.

      I certainly am not! But that's just me.

      Delete
    5. "It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble, it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so." – Mark Twain

      "The smaller your reality, the more convinced you are that you know everything."

      " . . . don’t be arrogant by assuming that you know it all, that you have a monopoly on the truth; always assume that you can learn something from someone else." – Jack Welch

      "While it is often said that honesty is the best policy, silence is the second-best policy."

      "The only things worth learning are the things you learn after you know it all." – Harry S. Truman

      "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge." – Stephen Hawking

      "The dumbest people I know are those who know it all." – Malcolm Forbes

      "A know-it-all is a person who knows everything except for how annoying he is."

      " . . . and therefore Socrates concluded that 'it seems I am wiser than _____ is, to this small extent, that I do not think I know what I do not know.'"

      "There's a whole world of difference between what you KNOW and what you BELIEVE. A true brother-in-Christ should at least have the capacity to admit that to those he PRETENDS to care about." -- Jeremy

      Delete
  43. Nan- I am still praying for you, but you have been on my heart especially today. Let us know how you are doing.

    Vicki

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you so much! ❤ I have felt the prayers.... Things go up and down as I'm sure is true for many. Things still going on but God is helping me have more hope. I sooo appreciate the prayers and I pray for everyone here! Thank you all...love to all!!! Hope to be at a banquet with you all and our Savior soon!

      Delete
  44. Two things worth mentioning.

    One. That the FDA conveniently issued their emergency authorization for a children's Covid shot on Friday, the 29th. Meaning that on Monday morning, the same day on the lunar calendar as the preceding Halloween night, you will start to see an even more extravagant form of child sacrifice. How pleased the satanists will be.

    Two. These last few years, Russia has been exercising a constant cycle of rising and falling troop buildups along the borders of Crimea, the Donbass, and Ukraine, in general. When you're bored sometime, look at those on the map. You might be shocked to see the proximity and relative simplicity (there are some mountains) of moving a small army from those eastern borders, down the land bridge between the Black and Caspian seas, and straight into northern Syria. A pretty explicit Gog/Magog threat right under their noses.

    Jeremy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for that, I find it very interesting. I put alot of weight behind this ellipse. I see it as the fall of Babylon, especially in the verse when it mentions sorcery, noting the Greek of that word.

      Delete
  45. Make that three things.

    Many have commented on the Solar Eclipses of 2017 and 2024 forming an "X" over America, as some indicator of judgment and punishment upcoming. Did you know that if you split the difference in day counts between those 2 dates (8-21-17 and 4-8-24), you end up in the exact week that the FDA first authorized the Covid needles under emergency rules?

    I guess X does mark the spot . . . for getting jabbed in the back.

    Jeremy

    ReplyDelete
  46. I feel a bit ridiculous, but wasn’t there a recent article here about scientific evidence of the destruction of Sodom, and uncovering what could be Noah’s ark? I can’t seem to find the post.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I scrolled down through Daily Crow to see if I could find the article, but I guess it is further down the pages than I went. If you want info on the historical data from discovering the Ark and Sodom, go to Ron Wyatt's website, ronwyatt dot com. He made a number of Biblical discoveries that are well documented there.
      -Vicki

      Delete
  47. Yes. I think that it's safe to say that there are still detractors for the Noah's Ark site, but the Sodom story is pretty well accepted and verified.

    Both have been uncovered and corroborated in the distant past, many decades ago, and then brought back into the limelight recently. Perhaps a foreshadowing of support for the new one-world religion, since both topics can be discussed without mentioning the name of Jesus, or the prophecies of His return.

    Jeremy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Some links (some posted previously on this site) about Noah's Ark (the Durupinar site about 18 miles from Mt. Ararat), Mrs. Noah sarcophagus, Ark anchor stones...

      https://archeologiabiblijna.wixsite.com/archeologiabiblijna/post/arka-noego-odnaleziona-w-turcji

      https://www.unsealed.org/2021/09/was-message-just-conveyed-in-earthquake.html

      https://www.the-sun.com/news/3725022/noahs-ark-buried-turkish-mountains-experts-3d-scans-prove/

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdMRa9T8wE8
      An 18’ sarcophagus was found in the vicinity of the Ark. Noah’s wife (See 2 minute section in video)? The “8” on the ark might have been even taller in their youth (for comparison, Goliath was 4 cubits and one span---possibly around 10’). Since ark was 30 cubits tall with 3 levels, the “8” may have had to bend over to walk around on the ark.

      Anchor stones for the ark: https://www.arkdiscovery.com/noahsarkstones.htm

      Jon

      Delete
  48. Knowing the stress that comes with uncertainty and tribulation, I can't help but think that the vascular and cardiac issues made prominent by Covid and the Jab are part of the same phenomenon. A little bit of fear might just be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

    Luke 21:26

    “Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.”

    Jeremy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's a good point. Stress is a factor in all disease and we are seriously dis-eased every time we check the real news. But I can't not. Oddly enough I'm reminded of sitting around the campfire with other little girlscouts and somebody would growl: "I'm on the first step, Maaary, I'm on the second step Maaary. Eventually one would scream then we all did.

      Delete
  49. At https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-11-04-globalists-running-sabotage-teams-to-take-out-fertilizer-plants-crash-transport-trains.html "SABOTAGE SUSPECTED: Global fertilizer production plants halted, delivery trains crashing, operations compromised, all leading to FOOD CROP FAILURES in 2022" and at https://foodcollapse.com/2021-11-05-no-fertilizer-no-food-global-shutdown-of-fossil-fuels-the-quickest-way-to-starvation-hell-basic-chemistry-lesson-for-ignorant-leftists.html "No Fertilizer, No Food: Global shutdown of fossil fuels the quickest way to STARVATION HELL – basic chemistry lesson for ignorant Leftists".

    "Revelation 6:5-6:
    5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
    6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."

    If 2022 will be the year of worldwide famine and hyperinflation, either the Rapture and the arrival of the antichrist will be a matter of only a few weeks/months, or the Four Horseman of Revelation 6 will gallop over the world before the antichrist comes to power and the 7-year long Tribulation Period begins.

    "Revelation 6:1-2:
    1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
    2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

    Is this the antichrist, or is it the Covid-19 pandemic which is conquering and devastating the world?

    ReplyDelete
  50. At https://www.henrymakow.com/2021/10/yeardom----timetable-to-tyranny.html "Timetable to Tyranny" a timetable about the implementation of the New World Order. It runs from December 2019 with the beginning of Covid-19 to September 2022 with the actual implementation of the New World Order. Remember that the actual New World Order will consist of a confederation of 10 European nations under the rulership of the antichrist. This means that the Rapture will maybe happen between now and September 2022.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yea, I used to work in a Orange Juice Factory, couldn't concentrate so I was canned.
      They put the squeeze on me to.

      Delete
  51. Hope for the next month . . .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn8xMSMm4M8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjranCqVwjw
    (start at 7:00 mark)

    Jeremy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. These two Youtube videos look like date-setting about the timing of the Rapture.

      See https://www.raptureready.com/2021/11/05/imminence-signs-and-feasts-oh-my-by-mark-a-becker/ "Imminence, Signs, and Feasts – Oh My! :: By Mark A. Becker" about that the Rapture can happen at any moment. Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ will come like a thief in the night, in other words suddenly and totally unexpected. The Rapture doesn't need to happen on any Jewish feast day according to this above-mentioned article.

      “Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch” (Mark 13:35-37).

      “Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not” (Luke 12:40).

      Delete
    2. Respectfully,

      Everyone's got an opinion on the signs and times. You, yourself, have added insight on these pages regarding the events and interpretations of our day, and there is nothing different about those videos. They give more specificity to day counts, eclipses, etc. But at the end of the day, what they're NOT saying is that the Rapture must happen "here" on "this day."

      To the contrary, one video has a title CLEARLY expositing the idea that there's a "chance" of the Rapture happening in 2021 based on sky calendars and Ark dates. While the other gives a wide-open date range in the title that is CLEARLY based on timelines . . . built on the Biblical study of verses, concordances, historical events, and numbers. Jesus talked of all of those, in between those verses you listed.

      All of this leads me to believe that thou dost protest too much, friend. But, for the sake of kinship, I'll acknowledge that these videos were, in fact, specifically put here to offer hope regarding future dates . . . if you can acknowledge that those same videos did not make any claim of KNOWING the day or hour. Therefore, NOT date setting.

      (I could almost wonder if you even watched them. But I don't give two hoots about the answer.)

      Jeremy

      Delete
    3. Up to now, on this site many more 'Rapture Windows' have been posted in which the Rapture could happen due to eclipses, day counts, etc. These windows passed and the Rapture didn't happen. Could it be that the Rapture will happen when the internet has been shut down due to worldwide power blackouts?

      Delete
  52. When our Messiah comes for us, it will be at the same time, as it was when he came to fulfill the covenant with the Jews. The “set time”, that He set on their calendar.

    That’s how He arrives in our (the grafted on’s) future, as shadows of those things that occurred in their day.

    Now their “new day” is to be in the time when the prophecy of Daniel is clearly being seen on the stage of history.

    Because Paul taught that we have to be taken out of the way first. But before that can happen, the dead in Christ will rise! And, they will rise, right on time!

    The dead rise on First Fruits! And, they will go into the holy city, and they will be seen by many!

    They will be warning the Jews, once again for 40 days, that the Messiah to whom they are giving their trust, is a false deliverer. That Jesus is to return soon, and that only repentance will keep them from the Wrath of God, which begins in 40 days.

    As did Jesus before, to fulfill the role, they will warn the Jews for 40 days, and “THEN” we which are alive and remain, including the many with bodies, shall be caught up, together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the Air, and so be with Him forever.

    And of course, 40 days after the resurrection is the Ascension of Jesus into Heaven. And on that day, He took a multitude of captives captive to himself as he ascended on high.

    That is the picture of the event we call the catching away, the Rapture.

    Jesus set the time himself because there was no “set time” on the calendar of the Jews for a Rapture. Just as the Church was kept secret in the mind of God until it was needed, the timing of the Rapture is kept secret.

    And just as the roadmap of the Church was written into the Tabernacle in the Wilderness, centuries before it was revealed to Paul, the timing for the final events of the Church age are likewise written into Paul’s words centuries before they are needed to be understood by the intended in their time.

    ReplyDelete
  53. The “Substance and Shadow” teaching to the Colossians.

    We are in A.D. 61, and we find Paul, in Rome, under house arrest. This is ten years after the teaching to the Thessalonians, where he taught about the dead in Christ rising, and the gathering together, and what to watch for, to see when your redemption is at hand.

    Epaphras, a leader in the Colossian Church, visits Paul while he’s a prisoner at Rome, to seek his Apostolic help in dealing with the Colossian heresy.

    The Colossian Church had begun to mix in to their doctrine some Jewish legalism, a little Eastern mysticism, and Angel worship. They mixed in a little of this, a little of that, and before you knew it, there was a full fledged heresy taking place, and threatening their Church’s existence.

    Now, Paul had never been to Colossae, so he didn’t personally know these people. The Church was founded at the time when Paul was founding the Church at Ephesus by Epaphras, who was a disciple of Paul’s. Colossae lay about 100 miles to the east of Ephesus, and about 12 miles South of Laodicea.

    Paul’s aggressive stance against this misdirected doctrine was that Christ was the head of the universe and of the Church. And that anything that came between them and that truth was against the faith.

    The Jewish element was legalistic in nature, retained the Mosaic Law, imposed circumcision, followed dietary restrictions and calendar observation (the Sabbath and the feasts), and advocated asceticism (practice of strict self denial).

    It’s in the meaning of what Paul says to them to debunk this Jewish element that has the most profound meaning to us today.

    He’s telling them, beginning at 2:16 that the feasts of the Jews are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

    Here Paul is introducing to the Church, God’s principle of “Substance and Shadow”.

    First, he’s talking about the Sabbath day, which was Saturday. Then he’s speaking of the feasts, of which there are seven, as being shadows of things to come for the Church, but the substance casting that shadow is the Messiah.

    Lets take notice that Paul is not using the person Jesus in this example, but the role that Jesus fulfilled, the Messiah, or Christ.

    First, what is a shadow? A shadow is a silhouette of the substance casting it.

    In this case we have two things casting shadows, or silhouettes of themselves. The Sabbath and Feasts of the Jews, and the Messiah.

    Now, what’s in a shadow? Every element contained in the substance. So that means that if you follow a shadow back to it’s source you will clearly see the substance that is casting that shadow.

    He is telling us, now, today, from across the centuries, that if you examine the substance that is casting the shadow, you will see all of it’s elements.

    Remember, these elements are meant for the Church. Paul is clearly addressing the Church of Colossae, and we are still in that same Church today, so he is addressing us, because we have that shadow falling on us today, just as they did then.

    These shadows that are being cast by the Sabbath and the Feasts of the Jews and the role of the Messiah, are bringing to us today the blessing that they contain.

    They are the bridge from that time when they were fulfilled to us in this time.

    ReplyDelete

  54. But why do we need a bridge?

    Simply because the fulfillment of these feasts brought the Messiah to the Jews, but they rejected Him. So the bridge allows the fulfilled promises, that were made to the Jews, a way of reaching the Church in this time.

    The shadow is simply a way of bringing those promises forward in time, through time, until we reach the end time.

    The Church was grafted on to the tree of the root of Abraham. We are to receive the blessings meant for the Jews in the Messiah. So God cast them as shadows, to be followed back to their origin during the end days. And when you do that, the message they unveil is clear and precise! A perfect mechanism that would tell His story of His return in detail at the time when it was relevant. Already written into his word, and led there by the Apostle that revealed the Church.

    Now there are two problems at hand. One is that the Jews don’t read the New Testament, so they are totally unaware of this Godly mechanism, and second the Christians don’t know anything about the Feasts of the Jews, because they don’t spend much time in the Old Testament.

    As a result, nobody knows about this trail that is so clearly marked in Scripture. After all, the instructions about the feasts of the Jews is given directly by God to Moses. So it’s not like they are hidden.

    But because the Jews don’t know they are shadows, and the Christians don’t know or understand their substance, the information lies dormant. Not that the information is not there mind you, because it is, but is lies dormant.

    So, our question is what’s in a shadow? The answer lies in the meaning of the Sabbath, each of the Feasts of the Jews and the role of the Messiah. Those are the substances that are casting the shadow of their meaning to the Jews, forward in time, that are being revealed to the Church, now in this time, when their understanding in respect to the end times has meaning and relevance.

    This revelation is mandated by Scripture! God put a seal on the prophecy of Daniel to be seen only in it’s time. Then He said, that at the time, knowledge would be increased. Daniel is all about time and place. And with it’s unsealing, our knowledge about the events in this time on that place has increased by volumes.

    Paul had already taught everything that he knew to all of them about the end times as part and parcel to the teaching of the Church. Here to the Colossians he’s divulging the mechanism by which the Church receives the blessings of God, meant for the Jews, as he swings them around from their new found misconception and mixing of Jewish legalism into the faith.

    ReplyDelete


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